Britains Spring 2009

[Fendt Fahrer]

I for one am glad that some north american 1:32 scale models are made, I wish there was more. But we still need more NA implements in 1:32 and NA specific harvesters like for cotton.

[ploughmaster]

uh models are far superior in detail fine for me as i like to display with dioramas but bad for carpet farmers as uh models will not take any abuse,paul

 

Which effectively underlines the very point I tried (and apparently failed) to make.  Ertl/Britains and UH do NOT sell into the same part of the market, so stop trying to compare them.

[ploughmaster]

some valid ponts by all sides here, to be honest i cant see any others appearing this year,it only tends to be uh/siku that usally spring the surprise models on us, the one thing that really anoyes me is the way they bow to the main oems, like jd and case , cnh ect, they used to bow to britains to get stuff made, now all we get are the big US re-hash models,the jd artics being one such item, and the oem big kit,nh 8040's ,case maggys,jd tracked beasts, they seem to have totaly missed the point that they are and always will be, a britsh farming / euro farming toy company,even if owned by a US parent company, and we dont all use that big stuff,if they keep ignoring the main stream mid age collectors, then they will fold, at the end of the day kids dont collect toy tractors like that now, the markets shrinking for them, and if they cant sort them selfs out, we ain't hanging arround

please just listen to what main collectors want, its possible to have toy and collectors model in one, look at sikus range,dont try and match uh, you won't do it ,stick to what you used to do best,improve your current quallity and range issues,and it will come right

Apart from the last sentence, with which I agree wholeheartedly, I think you and others are completely missing the point.  Britains is no longer a British company (the 'Britains' part of RC2 consists of Craig Varley and pretty well nobody else).  Britains is simply a brand name which Ertl use to sell in Europe because they know that the Ertl name would struggle in Europe in the same way that Britains name struggles in the US.  The licences for JD and Case New Holland held by Ertl are very lucrative ones; Big manufacturers know this and that is why the likes of Ertl have to pay a lot for them, both monetarily and in accepting instructions from the OEMs as to what they want models of.  If they don't make them, they will lose the licence, simple as that.

Whilst most of the newer releases are of big tackle, I suggest you have a good look at the catalogue.  You will find that there is a fairly good spread of tractor sizes to go at.  Admittedly the combine range are the biggest possible!

Don't labour under the delusion that Ertl/Britains are seeing their market disappear and will fold - by all reports the sales of their toys go from strength to strength.

Until Ertl came along, apart from Ford and MF Britains only had access to licences from fairly obscure OEMs in the main, and we had been through a period in the nineties when all Britains could afford to do was redecal existing models and use existing castings and to some extent cabs and bonnets to make an approximation of a new model (Lamborghini 1706 and Same with Ford TW casting;  Fendt 615 using Ford TW casting and Deutz cab;  MF3680 with the wrong cab and a badly shaped bonnet;  New Holland 8560 with bodged front weight on the Renault casting, and no engine detail). 

Ertl have changed all that and I defy anyone to say that the range has not improved vastly both in scope and accuracy in the last 10 years.  They have listened and whilst there are still improvements to be made, (that hitch and the combine headers in particular) we must acknowledge the efforts made so far.  What exactly is wrong with the quality of the recent Land Rover and Ifor Williams models?  The recent tractors too have, in my opinion been very good.  Yes, in many ways Siku are superior, but they are also more expensive in the toyshop.

This constant and unrelenting Britains bashing that goes on within this forum does nothing to help the future of Britains, even as a brand.  What is required is constructive criticism, and useful suggestion, not the intemperate tantrums sprayed around these threads like projectile vomit.  Constantly met with such attitudes, Ertl will simply get fed up with trying and could abandon the brand altogether, which I am sure none of us want (indeed they now appear to have stopped using the Britains name and logo altogether for US releases).

[FNHIR]

Excellent put Ploughmaster

[ksp]

well said ploughmaster... And it aint all bad from Britains theese years..  Just look at the JD 7930(it got the hitch problem i know) and the Simba solo. It might not look like the machinery in your area but it still well done models.

And yes, Britains are on a higher lewel than the 90's. 

[FB]

well said ploughmaster... And it aint all bad from Britains theese years..  Just look at the JD 7930(it got the hitch problem i know) and the Simba solo. It might not look like the machinery in your area but it still well done models.

And yes, Britains are on a higher lewel than the 90's.   

as Tris said, a half finished model!

Nothing i can see wrong with the ifor trailer and landies, only models i have had recently to be honest, and the JCB mdoels, i just dont like the new tractors & combines, mainly because they dont function well and not my brand. I would have got the JD's but the wheels look crap and the steering isnt great, its the little things that put me off buying, oh and i also dont go buying UH, just Siku at the moment, so i dont compare them to UH!, when i collected farm models it was Britains 1st, no others really, last 4 years (since FTF) the role has changed, Siku tops my list first, RC2 is bottom at the moment, only becasue i dont like the models so wont buy them, i was going to get the Vaderstad drill, but was warned off it for it being a poor model, the new JD to, with siku front hitch, but the wheels stick out to far, and i'm not spending time changing them, they should get it right first!

[Deere-est]

I for one am certainly not missing the point.

I am perfectly aware Britains is an RC2 company. Which is awhy I have the views I have. The brand no longer stands up to it's history which is where a large part of the problem is. If the name was put to bed and RC2 was the name which took presedence it would be easy. My high expectations would dissapear with the Britains name which used to cater for them.

If Britains had continued with the obscure names of their back catalogue would maybe have seen Fendt, Deutz, Valtra and Fiat forming a decent line up along with New Holland, Case and John Deere.

[Andy]

Speaking to them last week, this year has been particularly difficult in getting new product developed (as we have seen with the County delay) due to so many other products coming through (non farm or not Britains). In effect, the majority of RC2 / Learning curve products go through the same chanel of engineers in HK meaning that the big big sellers get priority. This may mean some farm items have to wait, ertl or Britains. Sales are up, and investment in new product is high so there is certainly no shortage in product development on the farm range.

There are some fantastic products in pre production stage, of which FTF has played a large part in working towards (future FTF models) so I will maintain my confidence with them for 2009.

Another interesting point is the survey we have been running. Out of all of the responses so far, many of you will be interested to know that of everyone voting so far (300+ people), even though UH is in front in terms of collectibility, Britains is only 10 or so votes behind in second.

[Deere-est]

My hope may not be in vain then Many of the poll questions I answered in Britains' favour were taking the brand as a whole mind, if I answered with just the last 5 years in mind they'd not have faired quite as well. My optional letter at the end addressed my negative and positive views more directly though so I hope they read them all.

[smallclaas]

In my opinion, the Britains that we all know and loved died in the 90s. Like alot of members here on the forum, who grew up with Britains models, the working NewHolland and Bamfords balers, the machinery that in some way always had some sort of moving part just like the real thing. That's why I collected Britains.

I think today the brand has suffered for many reasons, but we must remember Britains were always toys. Stricter controls brought into safe guard children from small items that could kill ended items like the New Holland baler! The cultivator which, the tines always fell off.

The last few years have seen some great models from Britains/Ertl, the JD Forage Harvester for example. Then they followed this up with the case, Newholland and the more recent NH forage harvester which, were in my opinion a waste of time. Badly moulded and put together.

I'm tired of the resprays (Marston trailer) re-bonnet, re-badge and nothing new. The days when Britains brought out maybe 2 new models a year are long gone, but they did a good job. I'm still a Britains supporter but not a happy one  :'( please Britains new items, I'd be happy with 2 or 3 new items well made each year from Britains/Ertl not 10 badly made re-badged!

Thankd God for UH, ROS, Siku, Weise should I go on..................

[Mike R]

I second that I hate all those rebadged models, and different coloured models once I used to buy them all now the recesio is here I will pick the models I want to buy rather than everyone,

I have just seen a Britains New holland CR combine on GandM s website for £ 69.00 whats so good about that then ?

[Simon]

Do you ever get the feeling you're banging your head against a brick wall with this...?

I can see both sides of the argument, 1, we want more detail, 2, they're supposed to be toys.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, they ain't either.

I sit looking at a TS135A on my office window sil every day [or T6070 with different decals if you will....]

It's mediocre at best. Sure, it's great to see contemporary machines being modelled, but for crying out loud, make it a toy or make it a model. And make stuff for the UK market. If it's not viable to produce Euro spec machines, why not sell the business to someone who wants to do it right... nothing is more unattractive to a customer than someone who doesn't care about or enjoy the products they produce, who just wants to squeeze the last drop of profit out of a sub standard offering....

If it's supposed to be a toy, make the hitch work, sturdy them up and slash the prices.

If it's supposed to be a model, make the hitch work, stick some detail on them and please get the proportion right.

I really don't care what they become, toy, display model, whatever. Just make them 'something' so I can start buying them again, either as toys for my kids or as models for me. Because right now I don't by them at all.... I wouldn't let my kids have a Britains model, they're rubbish toys, rather give them a Siku or Tim. And I think you all know which bits of a Britains model I keep to display, not a great deal of it...

If RC2 won't do the Ford NH license justice, would you mind awfully relinquishing it and letting UH have a crack at it...

If Britains is ever going to be number one in terms of sales figures and adoration, RC2 need to accept that Britains isn't the UK marketing division for badly portrayed US spec models with [some] extra detailing on them, but an entirely separate brand, with completely different values and demographic to the Ertl company....

Someone from RC2 PLEEEEASE say you understand what I'm trying to say.... we're just confused!!

[IH885XLMAN]

lets just have some EU/UK mainstream classics with out the prairy monsters that wouldent even

turn in the average sized field remember there a lots of farms with an acerage less than 600 acres

and cater for the small farmer mainstream/classics

ertl did a few good uk OEM models in the 80s why not bring them back instead of the prairy monsters

a nice 1690 rebranded if need be 956xl or 784

;) oh and RC2 i still love you  * just incase bill or craig read this  :

[FNHIR]

lets just have some EU/UK mainstream classics with out the prairy monsters that wouldent even

turn in the average sized field remember there a lots of farms with an acerage less than 600 acres

and cater for the small farmer mainstream/classics

ertl did a few good uk OEM models in the 80s why not bring them back instead of the prairy monsters

a nice 1690 rebranded if need be 956xl or 784

;) oh and RC2 i still love you  * just incase bill or craig read this    :

I'd agree with that idea in theory, but when the old castings are rolled out, people complain about lack of detail, RC2 can't win

[Fendt Fahrer]

ERTL does not care what a few want they will produce what the masses want and that IS US related toys. The US market is huge and lucrative. The market share of ertl toys in the US is nearly 100 percent ! The JD and CaseNH licence is an integral part of this and they will never give it up.

I am very happy that ERTL have not given up on the 1:32 market in NA please keep them coming.

On the quality side of things, yes improvements can be made and I hope optimistically that they will achieve this. Make the Ertl /Britains toys playable ie. better rear hitches. And produce more 1:32 precisions including harvesters and implements to please the collector.

Britains as you guys in Europe know it is dead and will not resurface again soon.

The problem is that we want JD or CaseNH toys we will still have to buy britains and they know it........

The only alternative I see is that Ertl/britains stop producing 1:32 models and give up their hold on the licences for that scale only. But who is going to make NA 1:32 farm toys then. ??? Maybe UH would attempt it, which could be a good thing because they are willing to make implements on a more wider scale . So maybe this could be the solution to all our problems. ???

What do you think

In the end all I want is both Eoropean and NA tractors, harvesters and implements in 1;32 scale . I do not care who makes the toys as long as they are accurate, well detailed and a wide diversity .

[Tractorman810]

Apart from the last sentence, with which I agree wholeheartedly, I think you and others are completely missing the point.  Britains is no longer a British company (the 'Britains' part of RC2 consists of Craig Varley and pretty well nobody else).  Britains is simply a brand name which Ertl use to sell in Europe because they know that the Ertl name would struggle in Europe in the same way that Britains name struggles in the US.  The licences for JD and Case New Holland held by Ertl are very lucrative ones; Big manufacturers know this and that is why the likes of Ertl have to pay a lot for them, both monetarily and in accepting instructions from the OEMs as to what they want models of.  If they don't make them, they will lose the licence, simple as that.

Whilst most of the newer releases are of big tackle, I suggest you have a good look at the catalogue.  You will find that there is a fairly good spread of tractor sizes to go at.  Admittedly the combine range are the biggest possible!

Don't labour under the delusion that Ertl/Britains are seeing their market disappear and will fold - by all reports the sales of their toys go from strength to strength.

Until Ertl came along, apart from Ford and MF Britains only had access to licences from fairly obscure OEMs in the main, and we had been through a period in the nineties when all Britains could afford to do was redecal existing models and use existing castings and to some extent cabs and bonnets to make an approximation of a new model (Lamborghini 1706 and Same with Ford TW casting;  Fendt 615 using Ford TW casting and Deutz cab;  MF3680 with the wrong cab and a badly shaped bonnet;  New Holland 8560 with bodged front weight on the Renault casting, and no engine detail). 

Ertl have changed all that and I defy anyone to say that the range has not improved vastly both in scope and accuracy in the last 10 years.  They have listened and whilst there are still improvements to be made, (that hitch and the combine headers in particular) we must acknowledge the efforts made so far.  What exactly is wrong with the quality of the recent Land Rover and Ifor Williams models?  The recent tractors too have, in my opinion been very good.  Yes, in many ways Siku are superior, but they are also more expensive in the toyshop.

This constant and unrelenting Britains bashing that goes on within this forum does nothing to help the future of Britains, even as a brand.  What is required is constructive criticism, and useful suggestion, not the intemperate tantrums sprayed around these threads like projectile vomit.  Constantly met with such attitudes, Ertl will simply get fed up with trying and could abandon the brand altogether, which I am sure none of us want (indeed they now appear to have stopped using the Britains name and logo altogether for US releases).

i didnt say it was a british company mate, it says owned by a us parent company in my reply, ,and yes it is still a british arm of that company, which to me means uk/ euro toys, not these silly monster toys they keep producing, rehases of old ertl toys, and kit thats only seen in 25% of the uk, and prob not much more in euro farming, just because its US owned, doesnt mean to say the british arm cant do its own thing and be brave,make kit people want to see.

yes even the old britains range was a mis match of reused chassis and decals, but they covered the swaps far better than now, the plastics covered up any chassis errors on different makes, the fact they are so sought after now proves that point,

i aint britains bashing either, i have colected for 30 years now, and strongly like the brand, hell i have most of the stuff up till the early 90's when ertl destroyed the range with really poor models , just not the current lack luster models they are bringing out, they took a huge step forward with the jd4020, great we all think, then totally destroy all that effort with a half measure ford 5000/7000/7600, collectors model??? dont think so, its a 50% model, just unfinished, but so close , yes some of the later maggys and nh's have good details on them, but even you must agree with the new fords problems, in my opinion skiu have it at present, good strong toys with detail, and a good wide range of tractors of all sizes and implements of all sizes

as for range i dont consider the classic fords,and the small seyter/case/nh model,  along with the other current range ,that being nh60 series upwards, case mx upwards, jd 4020, then the big ones upwards as a spread of tractors, far from it, jd do smaller tractors look siku do them, nh do mid range tractors ?? where are they, and belive it or not theres more brands out there than case cnh and jd?  siku do numerous others along with those,yes combines are all big and need more smaller / mid range kit

if after 30 years collecting i cant express my views of the current range, with hopefully rc2 seeing that then whats it coming to , we as older collectors are now prob worth 50% if not more of their market i recon, i very very rarley see britains in toyshops now,so how can kids be buying them?

[Light Land]

Well said lads.

[Lord Ferguson]

Crikey... some superb debate here...

Ploughmaster.... I don't think I can disagree with anything you have said... I'd be inclined to agree with you on all of it, all be it with not quite so much passion as you have portrayed in your posts...

I like to keep it simple... we are comparing a rolls royce (well... perhaps a Mercedes C class in the case of UH) to a mini.... I'm fond of Britains stuff for it's functionality... I'm fond of UH stuff for it's high detail level, I'm fond of Ertl stuff for it's Shear ruggedness and playability...

Britains as we knew it.... GONE - and almost certainly never to return - progress... my daughter (aged 11) went out to the shops on Saturday to meet her mates... just a minute I said as she went out of the door... "Do you have your phone on you young lady " - Yes dad  - "is it switched on then " - Yes dad  - I sat there and thought to myself... isn't modern technology wonderful... PROGRESS - on the plus side... I can speak to her in 'real-time' any time I choose... on the negative side - she won't ever be able to play like we all did  \

There is one idea... If Ertl don't want the Britains name... what stops a few of us getting together, forming a workers cooperative and buying the rights to the brand - Oh... progress... if we made models ourselves in the UK we'd be bust in weeks - you can't compete with China manufacturing 

Let the debate roll on... I am bloody enjoying this 

[Udimore]

In my opinion, the Britains that we all know and loved died in the 90s. Like alot of members here on the forum, who grew up with Britains models, the working NewHolland and Bamfords balers, the machinery that in some way always had some sort of moving part just like the real thing. That's why I collected Britains.

I think today the brand has suffered for many reasons, but we must remember Britains were always toys. Stricter controls brought into safe guard children from small items that could kill ended items like the New Holland baler! The cultivator which, the tines always fell off.

The last few years have seen some great models from Britains/Ertl, the JD Forage Harvester for example. Then they followed this up with the case, Newholland and the more recent NH forage harvester which, were in my opinion a waste of time. Badly moulded and put together.

I'm tired of the resprays (Marston trailer) re-bonnet, re-badge and nothing new. The days when Britains brought out maybe 2 new models a year are long gone, but they did a good job. I'm still a Britains supporter but not a happy one  :'( please Britains new items, I'd be happy with 2 or 3 new items well made each year from Britains/Ertl not 10 badly made re-badged!

Thankd God for UH, ROS, Siku, Weise should I go on..................

Never a truer word written G 

Sums it all up for me too.. I will stay loyal until either Britains die or my Grave whichever comes first 

[Deere-est]

Do you ever get the feeling you're banging your head against a brick wall with this...?

I can see both sides of the argument, 1, we want more detail, 2, they're supposed to be toys.

Detail isn't an issue, it's better than it should be for toys to be honest. It's product range, quality control and fuctionality which seem to be the biggies.

And make stuff for the UK market. If it's not viable to produce Euro spec machines, why not sell the business to someone who wants to do it right... nothing is more unattractive to a customer than someone who doesn't care about or enjoy the products they produce, who just wants to squeeze the last drop of profit out of a sub standard offering....

Here here, jobs a goodun on that. Britains could still be an integeral part of Ertl and still be run seperately couldn't it??? Maybe from what Andy says this year could be a milestone in the RC2 tarred history of Britains. ..

I really don't care what they become, toy, display model, whatever. Just make them 'something' so I can start buying them again, either as toys for my kids or as models for me. Because right now I don't by them at all....

Exactly how I feel too mate.

If Britains is ever going to be number one in terms of sales figures and adoration, RC2 need to accept that Britains isn't the UK marketing division for badly portrayed US spec models with [some] extra detailing on them, but an entirely separate brand, with completely different values and demographic to the Ertl company....

Someone from RC2 PLEEEEASE say you understand what I'm trying to say.... we're just confused!!

Your speaking my speak now Simon 

[ploughmaster]

Firstly, the words used were "they are and always will be, a britsh farming / euro farming toy company" You are still missing that point. They are not, it is now merely a brand name.

just because its US owned, doesnt mean to say the british arm cant do its own thing and be brave

The British end doing their own thing is pretty much what allowed us to have the Ford 5000, which you had this to say about:

they took a huge step forward with the jd4020, great we all think, then totally destroy all that effort with a half measure ford 5000/7000/7600

The JD4030 was an entirely US Ertl inspired model for which we were graced with a European spec version. The Ford was done principally from the UK end.

the old britains range was a mis match of reused chassis and decals, but they covered the swaps far better than now, the plastics covered up any chassis errors on different makes

No they didn't. they looked terrible. They were almost certainly the most appalling models of tractors ever made.  The reason they are sought after is because they are old, and not so common and collectors want to fill holes in their collection. It definately doesn't make them any good as models. 

the early 90's when ertl destroyed the range with really poor models

Britains had already done the poor models.  I would like to know what models came out under Ertl ownership that were worse?

as for range i dont consider the classic fords,and the small seyter/case/nh model,  along with the other current range ,that being nh60 series upwards, case mx upwards, jd 4020, then the big ones upwards as a spread of tractors, far from it, jd do smaller tractors look siku do them, nh do mid range tractors ?? where are they, and belive it or not theres more brands out there than case cnh and jd?  siku do numerous others along with those,yes combines are all big and need more smaller / mid range kit

 

I think this is unreasonable.  There is a good spread of sizes, and as has been repeated before, the terms of the licence mean Ertl have to produce what the OEMs want them to.  Siku do the mid range models that are licenced to them by JD Europe. Ertl don't have that licence for the tractors made in Europe.. 

Much as I would like to see a range of OEMs represented, the exclusive nature of the licences for CNH and JD that are held by Ertl means that those two OEMs have Ertl by the short hairs.  Ertl are willing to concentrate on these brands because of the exclusivity.  Other OEMs seem to grant licences to everyone and anyone, which means the toy/model makers end up competing for sales of basically the same model. 

I know I am in an area populated with large farms and massive machinery, so a lot of the offerings fit in with what I see every day (there is an area of around 30 miles radius in central Lincolnshire that has the highest concentration of Case Quadtracs of anywhere in the world!!!)  Go to the highly arable areas of continental Europe and you will find some truly huge machines.

[Tractorman810]

we could argue all day/night over this ploughmaster and never agree,i have my views as do you, after 30 years collecting the stuff i aint no kid at it thats for sure, as i susspect neither are you :D , given the choise when i buy for my nephew i buy siku, i buy britains to cut up and re use, along with uh stuff i must confess, siku to me offer a far better choice overall to me,

[smallclaas]

What I find hard to understand about the whole thing is, if RC2 want to re-hash existing models and kit, then why not take a look at some of the talented builders on here, who with a bit of hard work and glue turn some of the most standard Britains kit into masterpieces. Using tools at hand so why can't RC2 use there expensive manufacturing kit to do the same? Or why not just hire some of the lads on this forum to give them a few tips and ideas, maybe that's what is lacking at RC2 today, bring back Warner Hall is what I say, reading his very interesting articles in Model Tractor is always a pleasure.

[Tractorman810]

What I find hard to understand about the whole thing is, if RC2 want to re-hash existing models and kit, then why not take a look at some of the talented builders on here, who with a bit of hard work and glue turn some of the most standard Britains kit into masterpieces. Using tools at hand so why can't RC2 use there expensive manufacturing kit to do the same? Or why not just hire some of the lads on this forum to give them a few tips and ideas, maybe that's what is lacking at RC2 today, bring back Warner Hall is what I say, reading his very interesting articles in Model Tractor is always a pleasure.

they could learn from here for euro kit, and ttt for american stuff, going by some of the work they do as well,

[bluegreen]

Its a shame Britains/ertl dont have a specialist wing of the company to reproduce some of the models in a highly detailed precision package like Wiking have done for models originally released by Siku Then we might be looking forward to a JD8330 which has the correct wheels on it and a steering wheel which has a diametre thats smaller than 3feet

On the other hand at least Britains managed to get the right tractor decal on the side of their model   6930 my arse