An Interested Spectator Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 This is a really nice model, and i am sure the 1/32, when and if it appears, will be equally good. However, as with the 135, I will not be buying one. I have more than adequate versions from Britains, and Britains conversions. Which brings me to my point, why have UH reproduced models that other companies have been doing for years and there are, literal thousands around. I know UH are far more detailed, but would they sell more of models not covered by the other major model makers. Rather than a 135 produce a 165 or 175, or a 600 or 300 series instead of a 590, and in the case of Ford a 4000 (which was the volume seller) rather than a 5000. I am sure someone who knows about marketing will explain it to me, but at the moment UH appear to be doing themselves and us (the customer) a dis-service. So expect a 2680 any day then !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Intersting point to raise... from my limited dealings with UH it is (like all other businesses) about pounds, shillings and pence... or in their case... the Euro... or would it be the Yen Models like the 135 and 35x will outsell models of 165's and 175's by a large percentage I would guess. UH are also dealing directly with MF on this and use the MF museum (now the Heritage centre in Beauvais) for their model choice and measuring... That's why we've seen some 'howlers' from them such as the 35x with PAVT wheels and the Grey Fergie with continental engine not to mention the 135 'bitsa' tractor (10+ parts model).. all living in the Heritage centre at the Beauvais factory (and previously in the Banner Lane museum)... both the TE and the 35x were the first models made off the production line. I wish they took a bit more advice from those in the know really it's such a shame.. but as they have little or no competition (at their price point) they get away with it What we really need is for Martyn Reeve, Nigel Ford and Dave Perdue to form a business of MASS-PRODUCED tractors in China.. then we'd be cooking on gas.. thinking aloud for a minute... (and living in hope) we may see a 168 next... there is a mint one at the heritage centre with a rigid clad cab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I think the view from North America would be any time a Massey is made regardless of the model it is a huge step forward for the Agco fans.....We over here do not have the access you have in the UK for Masseys......henceforth anything coming out is more than welcomed....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I think the view from North America would be any time a Massey is made regardless of the model it is a huge step forward for the Agco fans.....We over here do not have the access you have in the UK for Masseys......henceforth anything coming out is more than welcomed....... Another intersting angle I'd not considered Pops... I guess we are lucky to have any models at all really \ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I'll split this debate out so we can keep it going... Not to mention the MF1200.... I suspect Brian Norman is not a happy beansprout now either \ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Interested Spectator Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Again the 1200 is another I will not be dipping into my pocket for. I have Brian Normans version, which cost a lot more money, but UH were just a twinkle in some french businessmans eye when i bought it. Also the cultivator will bypass my collection because I have a Britains Bomford awaiting a coat of paint that cost me a couple of quid. Logic says you will sell a lot more of something that no one is producing rather than just producing more of something that's already been done. I only did economics to 'A' level but even i known its the company thats first into a market that makes the most profit, because you can charge more, after that everyone else is competing on price, and therefore making less profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick a Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Again the 1200 is another I will not be dipping into my pocket for. I have Brian Normans version, which cost a lot more money, but UH were just a twinkle in some french businessmans eye when i bought it. Also the cultivator will bypass my collection because I have a Britains Bomford awaiting a coat of paint that cost me a couple of quid. Logic says you will sell a lot more of something that no one is producing rather than just producing more of something that's already been done. I only did economics to 'A' level but even i known its the company thats first into a market that makes the most profit, because you can charge more, after that everyone else is competing on price, and therefore making less profit. toy and model manufacturers do keep a close eye on whats going on out in the model collecting world and conversions that people produce.after attending a couple of shows in the netherlands there were trends in conversions. less than two years later these models were produced by big manufacturers. the particular instance was claas self propelled jaguar foragers then hey presto out came the norscott model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B O R Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 its an awful shame uh are using the mf museums tractors to copy off,think how many proper tractors there are throughout the country,even a good genuine original would do.but the 1200,i can see a 1250 coming my way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I only did economics to 'A' level but even i known... I hope I've not offended you or insulted your intelegence... that was certainly not my intention... I never even made O levels myself... and I am by no means 'Sir John Harvey Jones' either.. In the case of the 1200 I think it's got a growing 'cult following' and I guess UH just see the potential sales this will bring. I still genuinly believe that UH arn't as 'devious' (for want of a more pleasant word) as we perhaps think they are.. I think they are too busy to be bothered by all of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH885XLMAN Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 why don't UH break new ground and do some IHs or David Browns or even Leylands & Marshalls Arguably they do produce good models and I'm sure they would succeed in doing models not done before .On that don't get allot of coverage hence not ruffling the feathers of lots of other small converter's or model producers Its allways ford or Massey all the time UH or RC2 there are more manufacturers out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FB Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I'll split this debate out so we can keep it going... Not to mention the MF1200.... I suspect Brian Norman is not a happy beansprout now either \ good idea!!....could have changed all the topic titles personally i will get one, not straight away as i have other things to worry about but it will be added to the collection as its a nice model. I only have the 135 i got from Barry a few years back, so this will be a nice addition and more to follow :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Palmer Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 what about youngsters new to collecting and have no old britains to convert,or the price range however good brian normans 1200 is look at the price, myself i did a red cabbed 590 convo and i would rather have uh's version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 You've lost me Ben... I changed the topic title didn't I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FB Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 You've lost me Ben... I changed the topic title didn't I no worries its done now!, depending how you did it you can change all the titles at once, well you used to be able to, not sure what settings you used to have?? what about youngsters new to collecting and have no old britains to convert,or the price range however good brian normans 1200 is look at the price, myself i did a red cabbed 590 convo and i would rather have uh's version yeah i see you point here, i wouldnt mine a 1200, BN's are great, i've seen markys and couriered Seans to Torquay, its a great model!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Interested Spectator Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 I hope I've not offended you or insulted your intelligence... that was certainly not my intention... I never even made O levels myself... and I am by no means 'Sir John Harvey Jones' either.. In the case of the 1200 I think it's got a growing 'cult following' and I guess UH just see the potential sales this will bring. I still genuinely believe that UH ain't as 'devious' (for want of a more pleasant word) as we perhaps think they are.. I think they are too busy to be bothered by all of this I am not offended, and i hope i have not caused offence. I am sure UH are not devious, i just can't see the reason for retreading models that have already been done, when there are so many others they could have done. What price a 298t with Duncan cab !!! I guess, to turn the argument on its head, as long as UH keep being so unadventurous, it will leave room for the smaller company to produce something different. They will just need shorter production runs so they have sold out before UH produce the same model a couple of years later ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Thanks Interested Spec... That's very true... I would be more than happy with a 200 series with Duncan cab for sure... especially a 240 with Cab craft cab :P Getting back to the 1200... the last time I spoke to Brian Norman he had about 200 or so more to make of his 1,000 run of 1200's... I'd love to get his take on all this now.... indeed... it begs the question... will he make the last 200 now.. or will our 1200's now be one of 800 and not 1 or 1,000. Also... another debate to have altogether... what will this do to the value of the Brian Norman 1200 now Also.. will it put people off investing £1000 on the Classic Combines 1200 when there is a chance that the 1:16 version will come out (evidence given with the 35x in 1:16, 1:32 and 1:43 scale) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Interested Spectator Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Lord Fergie, Your right Classic Combines are the ones with the real problem with the 1200. UH have really shaken the whole tractor model world, primarly by bringing so many models to market, and the speed from concept to appearing for sale. Strikes me the smaller makers are going to have to be a lot quicker on their feet, or producing a much higher quality, which would take some doing for anything like a reasonable price. There's me talking to Lord Fergie, when, for a short time, I used to quard Princess Fergie, but thats another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B O R Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 ive bn,s 1200 number 505,had it now for about 3 years,a perfect model and i have no fault with it,i think it will hurt the value of bn,s though as people will buy the cheaper version and in fairness there,s enough smart lads about now to modify it successfully..i agree with the fact that manbufacturers should be looking to bring out new models,they had the 200-600-1100-300-3000-6000 etc to look at as options..id never consider making a 390 as i always say dbp does a good one and it,d take more for me to make one than you,d pay for his.....however ive a few new ideas for scratchbuilt mf bonnets to include new models in my mind,starting maybe with a scratchbuilt 600 series bonnet,theres lots more but i dont want to be premature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allis8550 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 It's all very well to say "I've got a Britains 135 or 590 so I won't be buying a UH" but , you have to remember that the Britains models have both been out of production for some time. So , for the young collector today who wants one ,what are the options, look around for a tatty second hand one, a mint boxed one [at what price] or a nice shiny, highly detailed UH one. I know which I'd pick , UH are to be applauded for bringing out these models as Britains are unlikely to reissue or revamp theirs to this standard, lets hope that good sales encourage them to release some more classics from the same era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH885XLMAN Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 very interesting points about britains but there are plenty of people who do good repro parts but i must admit the Britains 135 Vs uh is incorrect i.e seat etc but the overall details like the grille and steering is second to none i will be getting the 1200 and probebly the 590 now my shed is being deliverd on thursday there will be some UH convos going on he he he i cant wait to butcher a few UHs what is the price of the 1200 and the 590 by the way any guide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Interested Spectator Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 It's all very well to say "I've got a Britains 135 or 590 so I won't be buying a UH" but , you have to remember that the Britains models have both been out of production for some time. So , for the young collector today who wants one ,what are the options, look around for a tatty second hand one, a mint boxed one [at what price] or a nice shiny, highly detailed UH one. I know which I'd pick , UH are to be applauded for bringing out these models as Britains are unlikely to reissue or revamp theirs to this standard, lets hope that good sales encourage them to release some more classics from the same era. Allis, This of course is the argument for re-porducing these models, and if I were 16 again (god forbid) it's what i would be buying. My point is that they appear to be exactly following Britains model line-up from the 1970's -80's, I just think they would sell more if they tried a classic no one else had done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 This is an interesting discussion and again not want to beat a dead horse here, but I think collectors in the UK at times views are too local and not global enough...for example there is no question the collecting market in North America is much bigger then in the UK.....We are starting to see UH move into NA hence this 590 Massey will draw some attention I am sure...especially if they come out in 1/16. Take the Brian Norman issue, ask 5000 American collectors if they like his work and I bet 99.9 % would say Brian who? My whole point is that we have to realize that this hobby has become so much more global now......therefore the market may choose the direction......hence forth UH will make what can sell regardless of the history in the UK........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH885XLMAN Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 but its allright to tread over the rest of the competion thats globalization :'( :'( :'( :'( but you cant just mass produce a certain model if its got licence for another producer UH dont tread on RC2's feet too much or we would see the 7000 in 1/32 by UH a good model im sure but would they go that far ....I dont think so UH might tread on the little blokes busness instead like Brian Borman ,Scale down ,or DBP its wrong and it could cost UH in the courts ofcourse these models are expensive from the small busneses but they have paid allot for their licence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Well I wish that Britains would pull their finger out and produce a MF 1200/1250/ 590 as well. But how about a diamond plough for it? And if UH did some a Leyland,David Brown in any scale or 1/16 Field Marshall they would sell probably er... like cakes hot me thinks! P.s. How soon can I get one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractorman810 Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 your quite right iain we did discuss this a while back, and yes i do think uh trawl sites like this and look for convos that are selling well, thats then the next build they do, if you think about it one of the most popular mf convos is the 500 chassis, hell look how many i have done, as have people in the past and they make money, ford 6600's do well to, uh move into the ford market, as mentioned the brian norman 1200, bang out come uh, (we wont see a 16th mf 1200 as i know mr sewell has the rights for them well and truely sown up and safe from others), personally i can see uh doing a 3000 series jd before to long and other jds, as again the convos do sell well some could call this good market research, see whats selling get the rights and fill the gaps, others prob feel hard done by after the convo prices drop like a stone after the uh models out, but as collectors we win i guess on a side note i have also heard a very good strong rumor that uh have the rights to produce about 75% of the range mf produced from the 35x up to the 3000 series,hope thats true, as some great models might well be abaout soon for the mf collector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.