MuirHillyBilly Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 So a question for you learned ladies and gents. How do, or what is the general practice of getting a brand owner company, for example Ford or MF, to sanction a scratch builder or toy maker to make a specific model(s) What are the likely commission costs and how does the process run generally. I am intrigued as to how the process works, what are the challenges and how receptive are such companies to having their brand made by a third party (albeit it in toy or model form) e.g would it have been a straightforward process for Marge Models to approach Ford for their recent models and what would the process have been? Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Interesting question. On a similar note, I was informed that if there are under 500 models you don't need a licence, is this true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fendt Fahrer Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I think you are correct about a certain number. But I thought it was a lot lower..... less than 10 or so. But I am really not sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deere-est Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Depending on the owner of the brand which isn't always the brand name - especially talking of older manufacturers - it can be a minefield to get all parties to agree on the same thing and such licences can and do cost thousands of pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masseyferguson390 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 i was told it was around 10 or less, but i'm not sure, intresting topic tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leakeyvale Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 It is, as far as I know, not the making of the model itself but the use of the logo and name plates that are subject to the licence as they are generally copyrighted. Some manufacturers are more than happy to allow their use as it is publicity. I have said this before somewhere, but there is/was a Ferrari model collectors club who had the prancing horse on the front cover of the club magazine. The magazine was not for sale as it was for members only but Ferrari threatened them with court action unless they either removed the Ferrari logo or paid for a licence to use it. £50,000 (fifty thousand) was more than a small club could afford. Very short-sighted of Ferrari especially considering they copied the prancing horse in the first place as it was the logo of Aveling who made steam traction engines! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerrabbit Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I'm not sure how it works now, I reckon that several 'hoops' would need jumping through as so many 'makes' and 'brands' belong to a single Company as their parent Company and that parent Company would have to be the first point of contact. As for cost to the model maker again not sure but may cost nothing as you would only be 'applying' for permissions and not actually buying anything off them. Out of production models of the real machine may be different but in the case of a current machine, if you want to reproduce it in miniature as an accurate representation of the real thing what the model maker used to have to do was build the model, submit it to the Company who manufactures the real thing, ask for permission to produce it in miniature and if the inspection of the model passes their inspection and scrutiny in that it is a true and accurate representation then they might give you permission (license) to produce the model in certain numbers, if you produce the said number and wish to produce more then you would need further permission (for a 'second run'). This is what I read somewhere when Dinky approached David Brown when they produced the white 990 in the mid 1960's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leakeyvale Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Perhaps Warner Hall is the man to ask - he has been in the business after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuirHillyBilly Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 Thanks guys, not sure who Warner Hall is sorry I was hoping perhaps one of our superb scratch builders like Dave Purdue could have added their thoughts, there is time yet. Thanks to PowerRabbit too you provide an interesting insight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deere-est Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Or Ros' Kim75 (I think), he posts on here sometimes too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractorman810 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 i am sure in talks with dave over numerous shows its a fair bit of work to get them approved, and as sue said its the logos and even colour schemes they protect , jd went after samson for the green and yellow spreaders , as they had copyright as such. i would imagine andy would have a bit of knowledge in some areas on this seeing as hes done the case ih ect?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Udimore Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Every company is different, some if and its a big if you manage to get permission want 10%. Production numbers also vary from as little as 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPN Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 i am sure in talks with dave over numerous shows its a fair bit of work to get them approved, and as sue said its the logos and even colour schemes they protect , jd went after samson for the green and yellow spreaders , as they had copyright as such. i would imagine andy would have a bit of knowledge in some areas on this seeing as hes done the case ih ect?? John Deere stopped Roadless from using green and yellow back in the early 1960s too. Also, while I'm in anorak mode, the Porsche 911 was originally designated the 901 but Peugeot had a claim on numbers with a zero in them (203, 204, 205, 206, 207. Etc), so Porsche had to change to 911 instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Ferguson Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 It always amazes me what people get away with (duplicating decals is a copyright infringement and there are several websites offering the whole range!). Also, everyone who scratchbuilds is at risk (I was told that JD fined one small scratch-builder thousands). But, a lot of smaller companies are more than happy for you to reproduce their models free-of-charge, as they appreciate the publicity. I have a friend who make aerators and the Company who owns the copyright even gave him a tin of paint! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmmodelconversions Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 reply to lady ferguson yse that is right copying decals is an infringement but if you go about it the right way you can get the goahead from the companys as long as thay see watt you would like to do frist and send a sample or and both a model and yes even permission form john deere as this is watt i have done with john deere but not for a licence no one will get a licence ie small models makers for john deere not even universal hobbies can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuirHillyBilly Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 It's a shame no one could offer any comprehensive answers It would be interesting if there is a symbol/mark which denotes a model with a license, otherwise how do we know a product is endorsed? I see plenty of scratchbuilds produced in numbers that have little to no evidence of a license but is this because of the the production numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOLOSHEP1 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 It's a shame no one could offer any comprehensive answers It would be interesting if there is a symbol/mark which denotes a model with a license, otherwise how do we know a product is endorsed? I see plenty of scratchbuilds produced in numbers that have little to no evidence of a license but is this because of the the production numbers? hi lee the models we build are licensed in black and white every county the massey fergusons we had to ask for the particular models we wanted and could only have them if no one else had them . agco charge 6% plus vat any licence from fords were between and 9% plus vat e.t.c hope this helps dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuirHillyBilly Posted December 12, 2012 Author Share Posted December 12, 2012 Cheers Dave that's really helpful, makes me respect you smaller builders even more as those percentages are quite high, so if someone builds a run of say Masseys they will have to add that extra cost in, I wonder if the bigger manufacturers get a smaller percentage because they do bigger production numbers. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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