Lord Ferguson Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I've been reading Farmer marshalls topic recently... with great enthusiasm it has to be said... Now I'm one of lifes 'thinkers' and I like to know a little about as much as I can (if that makes sense)... And I'm picking up some comments as the thread rolls along from some of you experienced lads... the one about wastage was an interesting statement... Now I've had nothing to do with silage EVER... I live (and worked) in an almost 100% cereals area - those that do have cattle use round bales it seems.... So... my question is... would one of you please describe the entire process in as much detail as you can spare so those of us 'who don't know' can get out head around the entire process... For instance... Why do you condition the grass what does 'chopping' the grass do to it Why roll it why cover it How can you get wastage How long does it last is there a difference between 1st and 2nd cut product What makes it edible If one of you farmers would be so kind I would really appreciate it... as they say... knowledge is power... I was chatting to my local farmer (who takes my food waste) the other day... he said he was mowing... I said... Oh you are making silage... his reply was... no... it's just the grass it too long for the cows - HUH.... how can that be Anyway... many thanks in advance from a 'silage virgin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis086 Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 by no mean am i an expert but we start by do one grazeing rotation with the dairy herd then stop the field then rolll the headlands to pickany stones in the headlands you then spread slurry/fert your chose we did both this year we leave it for around the month you mow it down you condition it to remove as much moisture you can you wilt it for 24hrs if weather allows cant tell you about why we chop it it might be to remove the effluent we have a wagon so it doesnt really chop it that much you roll the silage to remove all the air from it to stop any mould developing you cover it to to seal the air out and to aid the rotting i think the wastage is just the effluent ithink your talking about the first cut is the bigger cut but some say the second has better feeding quality as its not after growing itself out. i cant explain why cows dont eat it when it gets too long but all they do is ly on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis086 Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 correct me if im wrong by the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 Many thanks Dennis... that's clear... and very much appreciated mate... thanks for taking the time to explain... anyone want to add toi that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis086 Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 no problem what else you want to know by the way its denis for future reference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 Sorry Denis I'll be setting you some 'homework' as soon as i have completed my list of questions... :D Some for now... How long does it last What effect does heat have on silage in a clamp What dirrerent types of clamp can you have What other methods are there for silage What is haylage... and how does this differ What animals eat silage/haylage Many thanks buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 OK Marky, I apologise if this seems patronising but you did ask and I don't know how much you know. \ \ the idea with silage is to preserve the grass and the sugars and nutrients it contains. Fresh grass contains a great deal of water so if the crop is wilted then some of the excess water will evaporate and not become foul smelling and polluting effluent. :o :o Silage effluent is probably one of the worst pollutants that the average farm will ever produce, it's horrible The grass must then be compressed as it it better preserved if the fermentation process is anaerobic, that way the acids in the grass will act as a preservative. If air is allowed to get in then the aerobic bacteria will cause the silage to rot and become brown and smelly phew :( :( not good, you have just wasted all the time and effort it took you to get it in the clamp. The best way to think of good silage is that it has been sweet pickled ;D It is chopped short but not too short, to release the sugars and make it more palatable to the cattle, it is also easier to compact and expel the air with short cut grass than long stuff robbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 Brilliant Robbo... many thanks... not patronising at all... my knowledge is zilch... so that's EXACTLY the kind of post I was hoping for... I've learnt more in these two post tonight than in my 28 32 33 41 years of life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 \ \ \ \ \ \not bad memory for a copper who hasn't made silage for over 25 years \ \ \ \ I must have listed when I was at college ;) ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Just to go on a bit more \ \ there is an ideal time to cut the grass which is 50% ear emergence, this maximises the dry matter/sugar ration. If you harvest it before that you will get higher sugar content but less of a yield, after and you will get a higher yield of dry matter but the silage will contain fewer sugars, be less palatable and give a lower nutrient content to the cows....... leading to less milk per cow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 Blimey Robbo... more scientific than I thought then :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis086 Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 its ok. if your talking about the silage when its stored when you asked about how long it lasts silage as far as i know can last over two years it mightnt be the best feeding at that stage but its ok once it went into the clamp dry and was rolled and covered properly you need heat to aid fermentation i think most i know about fermentation is from a the farmers journal you can have a slab which is just a flat piece of concrete you must have channels in the clamp to drain off the effluent under irish regulations you can have clamp with earth banks and you cover them with plastic then you can have a covered pit under a shed then you can have concrete panel walls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 2 YEARS :o Crikey... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmermarshall Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 gee this man nearly knows more than me tis bit i can answer was chatting to my local farmer (who takes my food waste) the other day... he said he was mowing... I said... Oh you are making silage... his reply was... no... it's just the grass it too long for the cows - HUH.... how can that be at this time of the year grass is growing at its fastest ,Dairy cows in most cases are on a rotational system (graze a certain area/field every 3weeks) sometimes before the cows make a full rotation grass is too big ,cows tramp more than they eat so if its topped they tend to eat more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 gee this man nearly knows more than me tis bit i can answer at this time of the year grass is growing at its fastest ,Dairy cows in most cases are on a rotational system (graze a certain area/field every 3weeks) sometimes before the cows make a full rotation grass is too big ,cows tramp more than they eat so if its topped they tend to eat more Cows don't like the stalky bits \ \ and they yield more milk if they eat more leaves, cut off the stalks and the grass plant produces more leaves, more palatable, cow eats more, produces more milk.... result happier farmer :D :D robbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 Thanks fella's... keep it coming Is there a 'rule of thumb' for grass area... per cow then lads... .. thinking about this 3 week rotation business... 3 times more fields than i thought if you see what I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Land Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Almost any crop can be made into silage,not just grass and maize.Lupins sown into the stubble after harvest and made into silage the next spring before the next arable crop is sown is not unheard of were I live. Cereal crops can be harvested for silage about 4 weeks before the crop would be ready to harvest with a combine.Maize needs decent soil and long sun shine hours to reach it's full potental.Cereals are more hardy and will grow well in a rang of soils and climates in less time were maize will not prove ideal,It's for this reason that some farmers (upland and the likes) will plant a cereal crop for making into silage as they will get more beter results from the shorter growing season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CX820Joe Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Farming press did a book 'Forage Conservation anf Feeding' which I think is still in print - I might try and track it down to get up to speed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Just to go on a bit more \ \ there is an ideal time to cut the grass which is 50% ear emergence, this maximises the dry matter/sugar ration. If you harvest it before that you will get higher sugar content but less of a yield, after and you will get a higher yield of dry matter but the silage will contain fewer sugars, be less palatable and give a lower nutrient content to the cows....... leading to less milk per cow this would be for more a suckler cow herd most modern dariy and beef finishing units should aim to cut silage with a d value of around 70% which is nice lush soft grass this increases quality and therefore you should reduce your supplement inputs and keep cost down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPN Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I always wondered what they did with that chopped grass after we left! \ But this topic is getting too far away from the romance, the adrenalin, and the clouds of black smoke! Who cares about the science Lets cut to the sexy stuff! [url= Grass and[url= Keep Her Lit Marky. You need a day on a silage crew! Everybody needs a day on a silage crew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL FORD Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 we would have won the Pauls & Whites feeds national silage competition in '78 if the rep had taken a sample earlier ( he called one day when we were away from the farm but came back a few weeks later when we were feeding it from the self-feed clamp) however we did win the BOCM one against some stiff opposition, and about £100 prize money (Pauls would have been about £1500 I think!) The variety of grass (Ryegrass is higher in sugar content,hence energy (feed value) is the start point.Absence of weeds and soil (one teaspoon of soil in a ton of grass can cause it to rot rather than ferment correctly, so extermination of moles and heavy flat rolling of fields to avoid the mower & rakes etc "turfing" any mounds is essential to allow cutting low to maximise the recovered crop and leave a short stubble that will recover quicker. Conditioning the grass speeds moisture loss from the plant enabling the optimum moisture content/reduction (to avoid any effluent leaking from the clamp.This stuff is a highly concentrated de-oxygenating fluid that kills fish etc in rivers) to be achieved in fewer hours, so ensiling can be completed before any rain spoils it and reduces the bad bacteria build up on the now "dyeing grass". Chopping short increases the release of beneficial sugars from the plant and it's these that pickle (preserve) the crop in the clamp provided all air is expelled. Hence the even distribution and rolling of the clamp and air-tight walls/cover required. Chopping short also helps with ease of compaction (though adds to the expense of the job of course)."Pickling," as with many food preservations has to be done in the absence of oxygen. Sugars rise daily in the growing plant from around 6am peaking around 3pm and are back to 9am levels by 6pm, so timing of cutting is critical as is the atmospheric moisture in the sward (standing crop), eg-dew or previous rain: minimum possible. If the first season cut is taken too early sugars aswell as yield can be low due to reduced sun early in the season, but if a wet week is forecast when you'd planned to cut then the weeks delay will not only result in a harvest of poor quality stuff but a greater quantity of it too that the stock will not eat or produce milk/meat from so well and then there's the threat of severely damaging the sward if the ground's too soft to carry the harvesting equipment. If one cut early and got the crop off before a wet week there will still be growth vigour in the plant for a quality 2nd cut with the bonus of having the fresh application of fertiliser to the 1st cut stubble well washed-in and a non-rutted field ready for smooth operations for 2nd cut harvest which in turn will bring the possibility of a good 3rd cut if requred. Grass will keep growing if it's fertilised and cut well before a seed-head is produced, especially before mid-June and keeping-short results in more leaf (what the stock prefer as it's tastier) being produced than stem. When we had the breeding ewes we topped every fortnight or so as not only did that produce more leaf but the toppings were still still young and tasty and not too thick to rot-down so were eaten too as wilted grass, not to mention preventing any weed going to seed (thistles/docks etc). Another point is that depending on the quantity of Nitrogen fertiliser applied to the grass to increase the amount of leaf produced as opposed to stem, there is a proportional time required to elapse before cutting to ensure that the N content of the grass is not too high that it inhibits the pickling effect of the beneficial bacteria in the ensiled clamp. I know one big farm that about 25 yrs ago thought they'd be clever and put the fertiliser for the 2nd cut on the standing grass of the 1st cut about a week before they cut it, reasoning that the moist ground would take it up ready for the stubble to get off to a fantastic regrowth once the first cut was cleared. The whole of the first cut silage was like black slime and the cows sh@t similar all winter , milk yield collapsed, several cows died, most of the others looked like death warmed-up and the vets bills were horrendous. The nitrogen content of that grass was collossal! If kept well-sealed from the air, silage will keep for years, the bigger the lump the better. We had several customers with our clamp-silage contracts that had several years accumulated at the back of their clamps that became a life-saver when we had some freak-weather years that meant they eventually fed that until grass growth recovered after a drought or the summer was too wet to let the stock onto the fields to graze. That's all for now...'cor an I was hoping for an early night!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPN Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 You had a 7600 Schlindler under your bum and you still had time to think about this science stuff? Very strange! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FB Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 good post Marky!, i'll sit on your side of not knowing.....only action i saw was last night near A14/Longstanton where they were wrapping bales!! anyway some sites here may help? \ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silage http://www.purdue.edu/envirosoft/silo/src/whatis.htm http://www.smallstock.info/tools/feed/silage/silage1.htm this one is a little better! http://learningat.ke7.org.uk/ecoweb/new/silage_making_at_hall_farm.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted June 7, 2008 Author Share Posted June 7, 2008 WOW... More than I could ever hope for... special thanks to Nigel... Not only do I now know all these is to know about silage... I feel I am one of the UK's experts :D Seriously... some superb information there... I am staggered at the amount of 'science' involved it the process... not only do you have to be a farmer.. you have to be a chemist as well :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractorman810 Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 some great replys in here marky aint there, i am very much a grass novice, i do understand a little but this topic has helped no end mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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