The Economics of Silage ???

[An Interested Spectator]

This is a question for those who farm in the real world.

There was a post on here the other day to the effect that people were looking foward to the silage season starting. This set me thinking, yes i know it does not happen very often and the doctor says i should'nt do it at my age (and thinking), but i was wondering what, given average conditions, ie size of farm, haulage distance, heavyness of crop etc, was the most econimic way of making silage ?

A forager, be it self propelled or trailed, is going to be heavy on fuel and you need be able to put at the very least three staff 'in the field' at the same time. I guess it will be the quickest way of clearing a crop and the best option for larger farms.

Round or big bales will not need so much in the way of staff, fuel (just how much fuel is used rolling a clamp alone?) but the big cost will be bale wrap. Is this the best option for smaller farms, and is it the only option on steep ground or areas with only small fields. Do bales really give the best quality silage ?

A side issue on this is do you wrap in the field or at the clamp ?

The other option is a self loading wagon. No bale wrap costs, less fuel and staff than a forager, but slower and also you would need to justify a 170-200 hp tractor for the rest of the year.

I am guessing the main consideration for a self loader is haulage distance ?

Anyone want to disagree or otherwise

[NewHolland2]

Where I work we bale and wrap all of our silage........I would say we have roughly 50-60 acres of silage ground........We find it is the best way to work it for our means in term sof putting bales into the court in ring feeders with the loader tractor and shredding them in the passage in the other main court........

I think for smaller farms baling is the best option as it may require a fair bit of work to bale and then wrap and lift all of the bales but once they're in the yard they are easy to manage and disperse to feed........Plus the fact this method requires less tractors, drivers etc as we operate our silage baling/wrapping and carting with two tractors and a telehandler with two men........

Just my two pence worth on the matter........

[An Interested Spectator]

Where I work we bale and wrap all of our silage........I would say we have roughly 50-60 acres of silage ground........We find it is the best way to work it for our means in term sof putting bales into the court in ring feeders with the loader tractor and shredding them in the passage in the other main court........

I think for smaller farms baling is the best option as it may require a fair bit of work to bale and then wrap and lift all of the bales but once they're in the yard they are easy to manage and disperse to feed........Plus the fact this method requires less tractors, drivers etc as we operate our silage baling/wrapping and carting with two tractors and a telehandler with two men........

Just my two pence worth on the matter........

To NEWHOLLAND2

Where do you find is the best place to wrap, in the field or back at the farm, and why ?

[NewHolland2]

To NEWHOLLAND2

Where do you find is the best place to wrap, in the field or back at the farm, and why ?

We always wrap in field as it's never good to let the bale of silage get wet before it is wrapped so we have the wrapper following closely behind the baler in the field to prevent this from happening this way we're pretty much guaranteed to get anything wrapped that is baled providing a sudden shower does not come on........

We then use the wrapping tractor to load the bales in the field (as it has a front end loader fitted) with the second tractor carting the bales back to the farm where they're unloaded with the telehandler........

Hope that is of some use........

[An Interested Spectator]

We always wrap in field as it's never good to let the bale of silage get wet before it is wrapped so we have the wrapper following closely behind the baler in the field to prevent this from happening this way we're pretty much guaranteed to get anything wrapped that is baled providing a sudden shower does not come on........

We then use the wrapping tractor to load the bales in the field (as it has a front end loader fitted) with the second tractor carting the bales back to the farm where they're unloaded with the telehandler........

Hope that is of some use........

Yes, thank you, always happy to learn.

[NewHolland2]

No worries mate........Check out this topic it includes some pictures of us doing silage........

http://www.farmtoysforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=11623.345

[rich.new holland]

bales should be wrapped within 45mins of being baled otherwise they sag and are not good qaulity ,thats why its better to wrapp in the field as you can wrapp the bale with seconds of it being made  

we do both baling and wrapping   we chop about 100/130 acres and bale about 80/100 acres depending on the crop , as if theres not much crop we cut more acres to put in the clamp   as for costs the chopping operation is alot cheaper and easyer than baling for us as you only have to buy two rolls and it will cover our clamp with have left over   as wrapping and baling you have to buy net and wrap  \ wrap is about ?40 a roll and will do 60 bales and net is about ?90/110 im not sure on the amount of bales with net but i think its about 150  \

we use 3 tractors 1 choppin 2 trailers and 1 telehandler on clamp ,and can clear a 20 acre field easly in about 2hours and that field is clear but baling uses 2 tractors and it takes us about 2 hours to bale 20 acres ,but takes about half a day maybe more to clear the field  \

but the the other reason we bale is we sell some of the hay to horsey people   but if we could, we would chop all the silage, the only reason we dont is we dont have a sutitible place to put an extra clamp ,but we will be building a bigger one this year so we can  

hope this make sense to you    

[An Interested Spectator]

bales should be wrapped within 45mins of being baled otherwise they sag and are not good qaulity ,thats why its better to wrapp in the field as you can wrapp the bale with seconds of it being made  

we do both baling and wrapping   we chop about 100/130 acres and bale about 80/100 acres depending on the crop , as if theres not much crop we cut more acres to put in the clamp   as for costs the chopping operation is alot cheaper and easyer than baling for us as you only have to buy two rolls and it will cover our clamp with have left over   as wrapping and baling you have to buy net and wrap  \ wrap is about ?40 a roll and will do 60 bales and net is about ?90/110 im not sure on the amount of bales with net but i think its about 150  \

we use 3 tractors 1 choppin 2 trailers and 1 telehandler on clamp ,and can clear a 20 acre field easly in about 2hours and that field is clear but baling uses 2 tractors and it takes us about 2 hours to bale 20 acres ,but takes about half a day maybe more to clear the field  \

but the the other reason we bale is we sell some of the hay to horsey people   but if we could, we would chop all the silage, the only reason we dont is we dont have a sutitible place to put an extra clamp ,but we will be building a bigger one this year so we can  

hope this make sense to you    

Rich,

Thank you,

You raised another issue that i was wondering about.

A number of the farmers around here chop their first cut and then bale and wrap any second or third cut.

Now i understand the space issue, and selling some of the crop, as you explain for yourself, but the cost of building a further clamp must be cheap (over a number of years) compaired to the cost (deprication etc) of a big baler. Why have two lots of equipment to do the same job ?

[FW]

  Really does depend on what you are kitted out for, as in; Machinery, yard space available, labour, livestock and finally feeding methods. Really does depend firstly with space and yard layout, as in some people do and most people don't have space for a silgae clamp in their yards as they use up valuable space all year round. Whereas bales stacks can easily be made off the farm at little cost and are gone by March/April leaving at least 3/4 monthes of free space, which is more important in yards.

  Secondly, machinery available does play a large part, as chopped silage requires a lot of seasonal kit. By this I mean machinery which only has a few monthes at the most use within the year, as in choppers, a number of purpose built trailers, tractors to pull them and addiquite staff to drive them which leads into my third point, as chopped silage requires a lot of staff all at once within the year. On the other hand to having short-use purpose built kit, farmers and contractors who use baled methods, a lot of their machinery will have two uses; As in Balers, trailers and some grabs which can also be used on the straw job.

  Finally, feeding methods also plays a large part due to livestock and their requirements. By this I mean that different animals require different diets. Dairy cattle need a stable and balanced diet with high levels of energy a protein for high milk yields. Whereas Beef farmers feed food which allows cows to throw big and hungry calves, who's needs can me met in order for them to be fattened promptly and successfully.

Hope this makes some sort of sense and is of some use to you.

[jakescot]

bales should be wrapped within 45mins of being baled otherwise they sag and are not good qaulity ,thats why its better to wrapp in the field as you can wrapp the bale with seconds of it being made  

we do both baling and wrapping   we chop about 100/130 acres and bale about 80/100 acres depending on the crop , as if theres not much crop we cut more acres to put in the clamp   as for costs the chopping operation is alot cheaper and easyer than baling for us as you only have to buy two rolls and it will cover our clamp with have left over   as wrapping and baling you have to buy net and wrap  \ wrap is about ?40 a roll and will do 60 bales and net is about ?90/110 im not sure on the amount of bales with net but i think its about 150  \

we use 3 tractors 1 choppin 2 trailers and 1 telehandler on clamp ,and can clear a 20 acre field easly in about 2hours and that field is clear but baling uses 2 tractors and it takes us about 2 hours to bale 20 acres ,but takes about half a day maybe more to clear the field  \

but the the other reason we bale is we sell some of the hay to horsey people   but if we could, we would chop all the silage, the only reason we dont is we dont have a sutitible place to put an extra clamp ,but we will be building a bigger one this year so we can  

hope this make sense to you    

quote author=rich.Massey ferguson link=topic=20239.msg368955#msg368955 date=1201030427]

bales should be wrapped within 45mins of being baled otherwise they sag and are not good qaulity ,thats why its better to wrapp in the field as you can wrapp the bale with seconds of it being made 

not if I make them  they seldom sink far,........good even rows with plenty power on the front of the baler and dont be in too big a hurry, we stack 4 high with the tractor loaders and apart from the odd field thats baled wet or very short or something they seldom shift at all. We`ll make anywhere between 2000 and 2500 a year for ourselves, we used to contract  a fair bit on top of that.Weve wrapped bales since 1986. We used to have a newlands movemore wrapper then progressed onto a Mc hale  trailed machine, a topper it is too.

economics...ha well I could make a good case for either bales being cheaper  or for being very expensive, it`s more  how it fits your system I think as has already been said.We start late may and because we shut off fields as the grass grows and we can get cattle  and sheep moved round sometimes we may only do 20 acres then a fortnight later another 30 or so .......this last year I baled in 12 fields, 3 of them twice and in total covered 171 acres.We are on a rented farm with the estate not prepared to invest in a clamp nor am I....wouldnt get a loan anyway.......we`re stuck with bales......we wrap in field behind the baler and stack as and when we get the time fitting  that in with stock work  but ideally asap. I must try and find a few pics.Apart from the baler  which is a Krone,and relatively new ,the kit`s fairly old , the wrapper is 1996, old PZ haybobs , Kuhn mower,we dont use a big fancy bale trailer, narrow roads and gates don`t really allow them.We do sometimes get a contractor to cut for us and often he`ll now come and row up with a big Stoll rake.

[batcher]

There is an intresting read in the october 2007 profi mag about bale size and shape dilemma and the way farming is changing about these parts ( should point out he's my boss)  

If anyone would like to scan it up or i might be able to at the weekend if anyone is intrested

[Deere-est]

I know of a chap up my way who runs a grass silaging gang as well as a round baler/wrapper team.

This year or next he will drop a tractor and put the wrapper on the back of the baler for fuel and wage savings.

As well as this, the silage gang consists of one mower, one rake, one clamp tractor, three trailers and the SP Forager. He reckons to make a profit and to pay everyone he will be looking at charging ?56 / acre. That is a rise over last year of ?7 / acre. Though this sounds steep it is because silaging is very cut throat between contractors. It requires heavy machine investment and many operators. Rather than all look at it in the same way and raise their charges to match what it costs and make the necessary profit - they go cheap to get the acres and make the machinery earn it's money through working it hard.

If people woke up to the costs which some people invest in to harvest crops then the job would be done very well by fewer but better contractors. Maybe the true value of the crop would be appreciated more and rationing / wastage would be monitored closely with performance per head of cattle.

[new holland driver]

it is  cheaper to get a big gang in to do it this days most farm only need a forage havester for 3 or 4 days a year top end so most about  here get big gang to come in wam bam and done big bale it a nd wraping ti is verey slower hard work take a lot more time to cut row bale wrap cart stack wraping is not a quick job and the weather condtions have to be just wright or it a lot of in and out of the cab wet weather means the wrap wot stick and to hot means it breaks as it is to soft to pull tight and then there crows that like to preck holes in them so you have to keep an eye on them plus you can stack on the trailer as high as rope a starpes burn holes in it it is slow to un load as you cant phush the bales on the ground at all or you wile tear holes in it butit is a good fro the housey peolple as they like it a midi hesstion bale sare prefect for it you acn roll them over if you are bilult well like me and get them though a normal door way which you cant whet round blaes plus you can cut them down bit by bit beter for them as they dont waste so much plus there is less lugging of small bales sorry this is all i no on the ,atter as i have never delt whit a big sillage gang but we cover 3000 acres a season ha ha! barry

[civilpek]

its alot to do with "every horse for courses" when it comes to wjhat is the best option some will adamantly swear by bales other will swear by pit. its also alot to do with farm sizes. smaller farms generally find bales easier and more efficient to handle as they generally have less machinery but bigger farms will often have feeder wagons etc and could work across half or even a whole face of the pit very quickly the silage is always fairly fresh etc.

if you are thinking about doing bales you have to remember they are alot more time consuming then pit and the area of ground ud cover in a day would only be a fraction of what ud do with a self propelled harvester. on the other hand with bales it is usually easier to find customers as farmers from my experience anyway tend to spread out the work more where as with pit, it is normal that the same contractor could have been foraging on the same farm for years, also with pit there is alot more capital investment and it may be hard to find work for all the machines in the off season, where as with bales it would be possible to start out with just one tractor (although it would be time consuming) and over time build it up to 2-3 which should be able to easily handle most average typical style baling scenario's in a satisfactory enough time frame. my boss has a pit and baling outfit, the pit has 8 machines/8 drivers where as the bales has 4machines/drivers i.e a guy mowing, guy baling/wrapping (combi baler) me who used stack and hook up to a trailer and another tractor and trailer for carting. in a round we were moving 28 bales and would be flat out for weeks just about keeping up with the baler (pressure was on) so if you are starting out with just one tractore you can imagine how much longer they will take, at the same time you have to take so much care not to tear them otherwise word will spread so fast and work will be lost, if your married or whatever your wife wont see you alot. also with pit silage around my area anyway there is serious competition, one guy started up last year and just to win work was offering the deal "if you let him do your silage hell spread your slurry for free  " competition is fierce and cut throat.

as regards loader wagons i dont think thats a good way to go, back around the 70's they were being described as the bees knees but quickly died away then they were starting to make a come back again a couple years ago but again it was short lived. one guy here hired out 3 about 2-3 years ago and absolutely cleaned up with them, he was so pleased be bought a fourth for the next season and some self propelled contractors were getting worried so actually bought some too. although they make good silage the fact that they chop the grass alot longer then precission chop means it was very hard to get it out of the pit after, alot of farmers said is was tangled and knotted and they just kept breaking shear bolts on their shear grabs.  also because the grass is longer its harder to pack and if the loading shovel on the pit is not big enough it wont pack it properly so in alot of case's a fair bit of the top layers rotted. as a result of that in his second season he only did a fraction of the previous year and by that september all the gear was sold and that was the end of him  :'(.

if your starting up you need to look at the size of the farms in your area and the likleyhood of obtaining work, what are your trends in the area? is it 50/50 pit/bales or is pit dying back thus more in favour of bales or visa versa. to keep a harvester going you typically need 4 trailers 5 if there is any bit of a long draw, if the weather is good everyone will want theirs done straight away - this could prove to be an advantage for you when starting out as you will be looking to pick up work and farmers may be more willing to give it to someone else when they think their regular guy wont make it in time. obviously diesel will be a big expense regardless of which way you go, it will proberbly be your biggest expense even with baling, a tractor on a baler will drink it! at least with the price of plastic the cost is passed on to the farmer or alot of farmers even buy their own plastic. wages are the other big expense, if you want the best operators you have to pay them right this should be seen as a saving in the long run when compared to the cost of repairs due to drivers who dont really give a s$$t. thus paying well means drivers will be wiling to do more for you and youll have less worry and better sleep knowing that you have good guys working for you

i think if i was going to start id rather do pit, it easier and faster but if i was to think about it economically id have to go with bales, its easier to pick up work and not as much capital investment is required, get your own digger for the winter and when your not busy baling thus you can get work for your baling tractor on a dump trailer etc. even starting out get someone else to do your mowing while you concentrate on paying the baler off etc. my boss only started making bales about 5 years ago however he was well established as a contractor at that state but in 5 years he has grown his baling side to over 15,000 he is able to afford a bran new fusion every 2 years and his tractors are all top notch, his sun who is 24 is part owner of the baling side of things and hes driving around a 08 reg toyota hilux  plus can afford to go out every weekend and get pi$$ed. so with a bit of hard work it can work out. if farming continues to improve like it is at the moment i might consider starting up myself 

[robl12]

Up near me there is a mix of round bale and pit silage. The farmer that rents 340 acres where my mum and dad live does clamp silage for both cuts. The reason he does it is that when they did bale they used to get lots of wastage and spoilage due to bird damage. They have stores for fattening and require a constant quality to put the weight on. Most of the guys that do round bales are for either young stores or suckler cows where the quality is not so important.

[rich.new holland]

plus with wrap off bales you get loads of plastic left over that should  has to be recycled  whereas with silage you can reuse the sheets  so no waste