david_scrivener

Plus of course, as with so many other collectables, it only takes one person to find a box full of them somewhere, and sell them pretty much continuously on ebay, to flood the market.

As far as I'm concerned, all's fair in love, war.....and collecting Companies, be they of agricultural machinery, cars, McDonalds Happy Meals or anything else, produce givaway promo stuff to sell their goods, and all marketing strategies include aspects of direct sales and broad market awareness. As said, they will, if they have any sense, keep enough brochures in reserve for serious potential customers. As for grabbing loads of brochures, and possibly selling and/or swapping some on, I can only say I wish now I'd grabbed a lot more than I did when I was a kid of those Britains 1962-64 Garden, Farm, Zoo & Soldier leaflets.

Different age perspectives then. I was born in 1952, so for me the dividing years between 'old' and 'new' in terms of Britains plastic farm figures is about 1969 to 1970, when there was a major change in the range, as does Barney Brown by his book stopping at 1969.

Unless you're very, very young, I don't think they are the same moulds. The shepherd, the landgirl with bucket, the scarecrow, and the running sheepdog, are the longest survivors (& don't think all of them are still made), which look roughly the same as the old figures, but if you look at them closely, they're not exactly the same moulds. And there was me thinking you'd have Barney Brown's book and/or Jonathan Stephens' 'Studies'.

Perhaps some of you are making the same mistake as non-collectors do, of lumping together several distinct and different, but with some overlap, hobbies. As is also the case with collectors and/modellers of soldiers, trains, cars, etc. As I see it there are: 1) Collectors of accurate models, either new or relatively recent. (say last 40 years) 2) Similar to above, but also do their own modelling/converting. 3) Adults who actually play with their toys. Applies more to train layouts and war gamers than most here, although I imagine some of you........ 4) Collectors of 'antique' toys. Of course some of these might be new, a complicating factor with Britains, that although under new ownership (i.e. all those since the Britains family sold out in 1984), most of us consider current models to be a continuation of their farm range which started in 1922. Of course not everyone collects the lot from 1922 to 2011, but as has been discussed in other threads, it's not always possible to draw clear metaphorical date lines within the whole period.

I'd need a considerably bigger house to do that! I've about run out of space to store my collection as it, and as I've got the house to myself, every cupboard is full, bookcases everywhere (loads of books as well), even cardboard boxes stacked up here & there. Compulsive collector me. Probably OCD.

As I mentioned Timpo 'solids', some of you might like to look at this site (in German or English versions) http://www.timpo-solids.com/E_index.htm At the home page, click on 'Series' to see all the ranges, farm & zoo as well as soldiers etc. I think its worth taking a look because plastic farm figure collecting here is so dominated by Britains/Herald that many collectors seem to forget, or don't even know, that other UK companies made them as well. As Lady Ferguson has shown elsewhere, Barrett & Sons and F.G.T.Taylor (post-war separate companies, from pre-war 'Taylor & Barrett'). Timpo & these two were probably Britains main competitors. The Charbens & Cherilea plastic farm ranges were terrible crude things, so only likely to appeal to plastic figure obsessive collectors. JoHillCo briefly produced a few interesting (to us obsessives) plastic versions of their old lead farm range before they went bankrupt. The Crescent plastic farm range is limited in number of figures, but they're quite good. Apart from them, its down to very minor makers, such as Gemodels, Paramount, Speedwell, UNA, VP, in which even the experts have trouble identifying or know what their whole ranges comprised.

Countless boxes are inevitable I'm afraid, unless you can find (perhaps cheap at a car boot sale?) on of those handy chests of shallow drawers, ideally with drawers about 1 to 2 inches deep. Otherwise, beg, borrow, or make yourself from cardboard lots of shallow boxes, old chocolates boxes, biscuit tins, etc, etc. For the very tiny and now rare, items, such as the Britains/Herald 1960s cats & rabbits, I've bought a few old cigarette tins (the sort that had 50 or 100 'Senior Service', 'Kensitas' or whatever in) at car boots. One layer of cats/rabbits per tin, with cotton wool under and tissue over. Scrunch up and then almost flatten out the tissue before use, so the little folds & ridges help to hold the animals in place. Bubble wrap is not good. plastic and lead both need to 'breathe', and wrapping can break off parts as you've discovered. Line the bottom of drawers/boxes/etc with old fashioned tissue paper, white, or preferably 'natural' unbleached. By using shallow boxes etc, lay out one layer of animals, then put a sheet of tissue over the lot, and place another layer of animals on top, arranging them to partially half sink in the gaps, and being careful how you place anything with thin legs, a fragile tail sticking out, etc. Some types of plastic used in the 1950s & early '60s will go brittle & disintegrate whatever you do. This was because some manufacturers mixed chalk dust in the molten plastic to make the paint stick on better - this was before suitable plastic based paints had been invented. Britains and Timpo seem to be worst for this, although the animals are not usually as brittle now as some of the soldier ranges. Perhaps worst are Britains 'Eyes Right' ceremonial soldiers and some of the Timpo 'solids' (i.e. before they changed to their version of swappets & overmoulding), such as their Cossacks, Waterloo range and Cowboys/Indians. Hope this helps.

It might be said that the derail into older Britains items, and where metaphorical lines should be drawn between 'lead era' and 'plastic era' is all relevent to the catalogue book, because we are wondering why David Pullen chose 1970-79 as the period for his book, and, if Mr Pullen is reading this thread, what he might do next. Perhaps a book of catalogues & leaflets up to 1969? Then the discussion we've had becomes relevent - when would it start? Different dates for figures (i.e. if its plastic, its in) than the vehicles, horses/carts etc., (clearly, a bit more complicated).

In this case, Mr Opie might be wrong, or at least only just right if they were introduced near the end of the year for the Christmas trade. I have a 1959 catalogue - none of them in that. I have a June 1960 trade price list - includes 171F to 175F. Would be nice to see October 1959 & January 1960 trade price lists - which would settle the issue as they would clarify whether they were out to the shops in time for Xmas 1959. I have 1961 catalogue & January 1961 trade price list - includes 176F acrobat rake as a 'new line' in the plinth/packing crate box.

Thanks for those photos ploughmaster. So, it seems the 1960 issues started in packing case type boxes, & plinth boxes for the tractors, or near enough. This makes the 173F 3-furrow plough I saw in a picture pack box a bit of a mystery - perhaps a very short term measure because they temporarily ran out of proper boxes sometime. The earlier implements, 130F, 135F, 136F, 138F, in 1950s pictorial boxes I know about, and even have 2 of them. It would be nice to know who the artist was.

When it comes to deciding when would be a logical starting point for modern or plastic era Britains items, I think we can give two dates. As far as animals, people, etc are concerned, simples, its either made of plastic or lead! There was obviously some overlap, from about 1953, when Myer Zang started plastic moulding, to 1966 when Britains cut all lead figures apart from the 2 royal coaches (they went in 1967). Most lead farm (& zoo) animals etc were cut out in 1958/9. Perhaps lead era books/guides of the farm range should, for the sake of numbering completeness for us obsessives, include the plastic-based-on-lead-moulds animals/shepherd/bucket girl, which were initially numbered on from the lead sequence, 801 to 821, before being renumbered in 1962. As far as tractors, implements, horse drawn vehicles, etc., are concerned, I think we should focus on the 1962 renumbering, so we have: Items which only had xxxF numbers are purely 'lead era'. Items which had xxxF numbers, were renumbered, and continued, should be included in both 'lead era' and 'plastic era' guides/books, etc. Items, post 1962, only 'plastic era'. Talking of which, has anyone ever seen the 1960 & 1961 farm items 171F (Fordson tractor, metal wheels) to 176F (acrobat rake) in a box with these numbers, perhaps even old type Britains farm implement boxes (the ones with the farmyard scene pictures)? I've seen a picture of the 3-furrow plough 173F in one of the picture pack boxes, but that's it; otherwise I've only seen these with the new Herald numbers, in plinth boxes for the tractors & packing crate style+plinth inside for the implements.

Dunno, I've only got one version of each, which got all for free back at the time when I was a kid, and just as much an obsessive Britains collector as I am now. Showing my age a bit there. As for £47 being a lot for a single sheet of paper - best not to look at the stamp collecting part of Ebay - lots more for tiny scraps of paper . I did the stamp collecting thing when I was a kid/teenager too. Still got my collection, some good'uns there, but haven't added much to it for years - I still like the old African (K.U.T. etc) British Colonial issues though.

.......and back in November one of the 1963 farm leaflets sold for £47.01p on Ebay! Those who don't know, it's just a single sheet, 23x16cm. There was a similar leaflet on the zoo range, followed in 1964 by a leaflet covering various soldiers, motorbikes, the petrol pump range, etc, both leaflets equally rare. The slightly earlier (1962?) Floral Garden leaflet is not quite as rare because it was included in many sets.

Thanks for the link Scott. I had no idea such sets existed, and the set number 3/24 suggests they were more than this one. I shall have to get the reference books out to see when & where this set number, box art, etc, might fit in.

Looking back several decades, to the old lead days of 'proper Britains' (i.e. when the Britains family owned it), I've often wondered why they didn't produce cheapo lead farm ranges like they did with 'B series', 'W Series', 'A Series' and 'Crown Range' lead soldiers, cowboys/indians, etc. The now very rare, and never catalogued, fixed arm Farmer's Wife may indicate they were thinking about it, but perhaps so late the idea was overtaken by the plastic range. Thoughts anyone?

I haven't counted how many items I've added to my collection this year. Unlike most here, I don't collect tractors or implements, but am rather keen on old toy buildings, and have long since run out of cupboards and drawers to put them in, so am reduced to cardboard boxes stacked up in the bedrooms (I have the house to myself, so can do this). This year's buildings buys include a 2nd (already had one, but too cheap to miss buying another) ELF Western Town Street (3ft long, bank, saloon, sheriffs office, etc), some farmyards & lots of single farm buildings and a couple of nice zoos, a circa 1960 one by Barton Toys & a nice 1930s zoo by manufacturer unknown.

How about a child board in this 'Other Farm Models' section? To be for other (than Britains) makes of animals, figures etc in lead, plastic, aluminium (Wendal, Quiralu, etc), composition (Elastolin, Lineol, etc), whatever (rubber, ceramics, wood & other wierd materials used over the years). I realise the majority of members collect new(ish) models of machinery, but suspect even a lot of the majority have unmarked, unknown figures they'd liked to be identified, and having these threads in a section of their own would be a lot easier to find than trawling through all the old machinery threads. Comments please.

I have several old sections of German Elastolin hedges which are quite good, strips of loofah, fixed to a wooden lath, and sprayed green, plus a few coloured spots to represent flowers. Obviously these were toys, 'done to a price', so I'm sure a home modeller could improve on the basic principle.

I have lots (really LOTS) of old poultry books, plus some on pigeons, cage-birds and general farming. My oldest original is Bonington Moubray's 'A practical treatise on..........domestic poultry.........' (full title is ridiculously long), 1842, one of the later editions, the first being in 1816. Over the many editions it was gradually enlarged to include most aspects of smallholding activities, so the title of my copy is somewhat misleading as it includes chapters on pigeons, rabbits, pigs, dairy cows, pigs, bees, home beermaking, etc. The book which give the oldest direct account of livestock keeping in my collection is the 1963 English language translation by L.R.Lind from the original Latin 'Aldrovandi on Chickens', published in 1600. Ulisse Aldrovandi was a professor of natural history at Bologna University 1560-1605 (when he died). This translated book represents just one chapter in Aldrovandi's major work 'Ornithologia', which obviously covered all birds known to Renaissance scholars. I have a few original 18th century books, but none on farming etc. One has an interesting passage where the author laments the fact that a rapidly going senile old woman he knew was being accused of being a witch by the local yokels - just because she had started to get her prayers muddled up in church apparently. But not everything has changed over the centuries. I have a 'Farmers Weekly' type newspaper from 1817, which has a crime section, mostly covering stories about stolen horses and burnt down haystacks, but also including the story of Mr Jones, farmer, who was going for his evening walk by The Serpentine (London was tiny in 1817) when a boy, aged about 10, started walking with him, who eventually said the flowery 1817 equivalent of "Give me 10 shillings mister or I'll tell everyone you was interfering with me." Mr Jones refused at first, but then the boy's adult accomplice appeared and threatened him with a knife, so he had no choice but to pay up. And people think this sort of thing is new.....

Are modern alloys & moulding methods capable of producing such fine mouldings (e.g. cats, rabbits & farmer's daughter) in metal to a high quality at a reasonable price (in China)? There are lots of 1950s plastic figures, not just Herald, and not just farm ranges, which would make great metal figures. A few examples: Cavendish: 18th century soldiers, King Henry VIII & Wives, Ceremonial soldiers, and Timpo solids: Knights, Waterloo, Cowboys/Indians & 8th Army sets,

They had a good long run though. Although not the same moulds all the time (i.e. not as good as the 1st versions ), the shepherd has been essentially the same figure since 1957, the scarecrow since 1961.

I haven't read the whole thread, because none of this is my thing at all (I only collect 'Ancient Britains', certainly pre 1970, preferably pre 1940), but I take it that Britains has pretty much given up on people & animals?

I have the man on skis (red version) and a pair of huskies, which were briefly sold as a separate item, if anyone wanted to build up to a bigger team for the sledge I suppose. Ballet dancers: I only have the male dancer in dark blue version. I have all the national dancers, with both colour versions of the Hawiian ukele player and both colours of the Ukranian accordian player. It took me ages (literally decades) to get the pair of Spanish dancers and the hula girl though. Does anyone know whether the hula girl & the Ukranian dancer came in more than one colour? Pretty sure the Spanish pair only one colour (him: black, her: red) they look great as they are, but just wouldn't be right in any other colours.

Yep, especially the antarctic explorers and the various national & ballet dancers.