ploughmaster

I agree, it would defeat the point, but I have never seen such a situation. 

Perhaps you lived in a less advanced area, but every farm I came across both then and now, which had the flat 8 grab, also had some variation of flat 8 accumulator.  Most also had a specialist trailer to pick up complete bale stacks of anything between 40 and 60 bales. 

Accumulators were certainly used on the majority of farms around Lincolnshire back then - everything from a trailed cage that dumped the bales ready for picking up with an 8' wide scoop to be tipped onto a trailer for hand stacking,  through flat 8 or flat 10 (some with a second sledge to allow the 8's/10's to be dropped in a line across the field for easy loading,  to the McConnel bale stacker which built 4 bales high stacks of 20 bales. 

Regarding 'cheap' labour, what I remember from the 70's is the farmers wingeing about how the wages were too high and how they couldn't afford to employ the staff any more and how the latest (derisory) AWB wage rise would put them out of business (much the same as they do nowadays in fact  )

....the link arms on the tractor should converge under the front weight for ideal weight distribution etc.

This is the 'virtual hitch point' you are talking about:

High virtual hitch point for traction (implement is effectively pulling down on the rear of the tractor, but has a negative effect on penetration in hard soils))

Low virtual hitch point for penetration (tractor is effectively pulling down on the implement, but traction is reduced)

I think they never caught on over here simply because they were a painfully slow way of carting large numbers of bales - most only carried 4 or 6 at a time.  They were fine for the small 'one-man-band' central European farms where they only had to move relatively small numbers of bales, but on larger farms dealing with hundreds or thousands of bales, it is far quicker and more efficient to use a flat trailer which could take many more. 

Such things did exist over here; Howard and Hayflake Systems made round bale carriers here, but they just weren't quick enough.

In the mid 80's, I worked on a farm which had a Howard Ombo (very rare machine - they only built 20 of them!) which only carried 4 round bales and had a side arm with a squeeze on it to pick the bales up.  Only carrying 4 bales meant you spent a lot of time travelling between field and yard for a small number of bales.  By contrast, I once used a 'Big K' four wheeler which would take 25 medium sized round bales (two courses and a rider) which was much quicker.

I'm not sure about the comment that the UK was always behind, many UK farmers were using accumulators like the Cooke, Farmhand or Bamfords Juggler flat eight systems or the McConnel Bale Packer back in the 70's, when much of the continent were still dropping individual small bales out in the field.

So what about things like seeders, obviously a 4 mtr will need less than an 8 mtr, in theory it should be double but is this the same in practice??

And is the size to HP ratio variance the same for other implements??

It depends very much on the type of drill/seeder.

Back in the 80's, I used a 6 metre Accord quite happily on a 75hp tractor (though it would have been a little better on something 80 to 100hp).

A 4m Vaderstad Rapid will want nearer 150hp at least, and the old 4 metre Simba FreeFlow needs a minimum of about 160hp.

A power harrow mounted drill will obviously be governed by the needs of the harrow, so a 4 metre combi would probably need 120 to 150 hp (more in heavy going).

The principal factors are the type of soil, the number of furrows and the depth of ploughing/type of mouldboard.

In fact, furrow width has only a slight impact on draft, and thus hp required.

Not many years ago I had experience of a 6 furrow Dowdeswell ploughing 12" furrows to around 10" depth.  The tractor couldn't pull it in the wet winter, so we dropped it down to 5 furrows - still struggled.  We swapped it for a similar Dowdeswell (same soil engaging parts) which was only 4 furrows, but set at 14".

4 x 14" = 56" overall width of ploughing

5 x 12" = 60" overall width.

We ploughed at the same depth, and the 4 furrow was massively easier to pull, in spite of only taking 4" less width - it's the number of legs stuck in the soil that has the biggest influence 

Hi does anyone know where I could get hold of the livestock truck in New Zealand?

As above' date=' your best hope is find one on eBay from a seller willing to ship to NZ

so apart from the foreign generic milk tankers the UK had MMB, MILK MARQUE, DAIRY CREST & ROBERT WISEMAN  i haven't seen any others

The full list of milk tankers is:

9604 MMB/Dairy Crest:

Blue with 'Leyland' above the grille

1985 to 1988

5559 Real Inc

Yellow cab (no grille detail or manufacturers name) with silver painted tank with blue slogan 'Milk-Americas Health Kick'

around 1988ish?

5559 Real Inc

Yellow cab (no grille detail or manufacturers name) with silver chrome tank with blue slogan 'Milk-Americas Health Kick'

1988ish to 1990?

9605 Dairy Products Transport/Dairy Crest

White with no grille detail or manufacturers name

1989 to 1995

9599 Milk Marque

Made in UK; white cab (no grille detail or manufacturers name) and blue tank with upper part covered by silver 'alloy effect' paper sticker

1996 to 1997

9599 Milk Marque

Made in Macau; white cab (no grille detail or manufacturers name) and blue plastic tank with painted white upper section.  I expect there is a further identical version of this one made in China from around 2000 on, but I don't actually have one to verify it.

1997 to 2003

09599 Robert Wiseman Dairies

Made in China; black cab (no grille detail or manufacturers name) with white plastic tank with black painted patches

2004 to 2006 (actually became available in the autumn 2003 releases)

Additionally there was the Fuel Tanker which was a recoloured milk tanker:

9817 Autoway 'Shell' Fuel Tanker

Yellow cab and tank. This was shown in the 1985 catalogue with Magirus-Deutz-Iveco on the grille, but may have been issued with Volvo from the start??

1985 to 1986

9911 Volvo 'Shell' Fuel Tanker

Part of the Road series that took over after Autoway was deleted.  Yellow cab and white tank

1987 to 1991

9601 Volvo 'Shell' Fuel Tanker

Dropped into the Farm Series for one year after the Road Series was discontinued (probably just to use up stock).  Identical to 9911.

1992 only

Perhaps the two things are related   

Whilst there may well be improved Tier 4 engines due in the Autumn, it does not necessarily follow that the outward appearance of the tractor will be significantly different.  Have you any definate evidence that the new machines will be 7600 series?  You kept banging on about a new 7600/6600 series this time last year, which, according to you were due to be launched last Autumn (2009) - it didn't happen!

It may not be down to Britains.  Firstly they are reliant on the factory production schedule, and secondly,  it is posssible that Massey Ferguson themselves are dictating release dates.

That looks a bit of a beast!  I would think it would be a reasonable alternative to a large loading shovel.  In the US it is fairly common to use big artics with a front mounted blade, where over here we would normally use a tracked machine for such a job.  Using a high capcity loader on an artic is the next step on I suppose.  I would think a dedicated loading shovel would be better all round though.

[Westendorf website: http://www.loaders.com/default.aspx]

I'm sure the last I heard it is due late autumn  \ .

Holy cow! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300428647992&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT 

Hahaha! Looked at it and realise3d you meant it literally 

Not a bad price for that in fact - the 'lead mould' cows and bull in brown plastic are fantastically rare.  The last time I saw the brown standing cow for sale (also on eBay a few years ago), it made double that !!!! 

Pure greed and a very over optimistic price in my opinion.

There were about the same number of these produced as there were of the gold JD 8345R sold at Agritechnica - they have been selling on eBay for around 400 euros (which I think is over the top).  What makes someone think that the sprayer is worth 4 times as much as as that I can't imagine - last years gold Plow City Show tractors have been offered for similar money, but there were only 30 of them made 

It was originally posted in the wrong forum too  \  - being an Ertl release. 

Mind you, it was two months ago - keep up at the back   

It looks excellent and I am looking forward to it.  Not sure about the VERY limited though; they usually produce around 10 thousand for the Toy Farmer/National Farm Toy Show, then use the castings for a more basic 'shelf' issue of a different version for general release.

I agree - I'm sure this breaches some ebay rules.

It breaches the Multiple Listings policy:

Sellers may not concurrently have more than 15 active listings for identical items and of these listings, only one Buy It Now listing will be allowed. If a seller chooses to list in more than one category, the seller must still adhere to the multiple listings limit of 15.

and its supposed to be out the end of the summer and thats from noel kane himself

and the MF 7480 was originally supposed to be out in 2008, but we are in 2010 and still waiting and it seems as though it won't be here until near the end of the year now, so I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for the trailers   

Northern Ireland is in the UK  [img alt=]http://www.farmtoysforum.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif

I hadn't even heard of Kane until a few months ago, and was under the (apparently erroneous) impression they were from Eire    I should do more research before posting.

I have recieved word from the horses mouth on this. There are two new trailers in development with final specs to be sorted out for early 2011, but pricing is completely incorrect. Pricing will be in line with the rest of the Britains range.

Next time you speak to the horse, ask him why we need two new trailers when we are still awaiting a plough    (or would it be because perhaps Kane are paying some or all of the development costs?)

with all the trailer/machinery manufacturers in the UK why a Kane trailer???

Why not?  Given that Britains market is more than just the UK (and that the UK is probably only a small proportion of their global market nowadays), why should anyone expect them to only base their products on UK made equipment?  Kane are apparently a well known make across much of Europe.  How many UK trailer makers have any substantial amount of recognition elsewhere?

As to the detail, I suggest you take a good look - there is now far more detail on their products than there ever was back in their supposed heyday, and some of it is even accurate (thinking in particular of the Fordson Majors which never accurately represented the version of the real thing that they purported to be)

If you ask about something that is not supposed to be public knowledge at this stage, you won't get an answer (you won't even get a NO, because, if you then ask about something that is true, they have to lie, or make no comment, which you would take as a 'yes').

I will be surprised, and very disappointed if this rumour is true - although the Marston is far from perfect, there are several dozen other machines to go behind their tractors that Britains need to produce before they make another trailer. 

The price of £38 clearly can't be right - even the UH trailers are less than that (£18 would be more realistic, it will be a toy after all!).

Ploughmaster

Are you sure about your data, for me the TW10 and TW20 were the same with the TW30 being longer. The TW25 and TW35 were identical for me, Konedata and Tractordata confirm this. Could your brochure contain a typing error?

Yes  [img alt=]http://www.farmtoysforum.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif  I don't think Ford would have put such a glaring error in the official brochure for the TW range (and archbarch has confirmed the figures, albeit he has quoted them in inches as opposed to mm). 

It appears that the later versions were altered, (I only have the brochure for the earlier incarnation  .  I imagine the Force II TW25 gained the bigger, stronger TW30/35 front axle at that time, hence the longer wheelbase.

You are right, the TW10 and TW20 were pretty much the same tractor/skid unit. 

The TW20 however suffered from a distinct lack of fuel capacity, and if working hard from 7am, would need fuelling by around 4pm or it would run dry by 5pm (I speak from experience!).  Quite a few TW20's had extra tanks added, and when Ford revamped the range, they took the TW20 and added the longer tombstone and front fuel tank (and bonnet) from the TW30 to give it sufficient capacity to run all day long (90 gallons if I remember right). Underneath it was still basically an uprated TW20 though, and had the same wheelbase as a TW20, although the overall length was now the same as the TW35.

The 4WD versions of the TW15 and TW 25 had the same wheelbase, but the TW35 had a beefier 4WD and front axle which resulted in a longer wheelbase (by about 5 or 6 inches I think).

edit: from the brochure:

TW15(132hp DIN):

Length (to end of lower links) = 4460mm

Wheelbase = 2668mm

Ground Clearance (front axle) = 501mm

Weight (unballasted) = 6160kg

TW25 (154hp DIN):

Length (to end of lower links) = 4849mm

Wheelbase = 2668mm

Ground Clearance (front axle) = 501mm

Weight (unballasted) = 6300kg

TW35 (186hp DIN):

Length (to end of lower links) =4849mm

Wheelbase = 2813mm

Ground Clearance (front axle) = 490mm

Weight (unballasted) = 6890kg

All had the same size front wheels/tyres (14.9x28) but the TW15 and TW25 had 18.4x38 on the rear whilst the TW35 had 20.3x 38.

The Girl with Bucket also appeared in the Zoo range as part of the small boxed set 4361 from 1970 to 1972.

There are two colour variations of her trousers - dark blue (which is more common) or turquoise blue.

And a tractor I was after for this past couple of weeks - the show tractor from Spalding! Got this from G and M Models and Im chuffed with it.  One gripe I have with it though is the fact that it says '2009' on the box and then the sticker says '2010 Show'. 

The date that Britains put on the box relates to the date of the real tractor - they are doing this for all the JD models now it seems.

It would not have been possible to change the date on the box as Britains had nothing to do with producing this edition - it is a code 3, the standard Britains model weathered by Oranda Design.

I tend to agree with that, but at least the raffle got the sprayers into the hands of genuine collectors - I haven't seen or heard of any of those UK raffle ones being sold on.

I enquired as to the price of the gold 8345R at Spalding, two available at either £540 or £650 apiece and that's in a recession!

Those prices were just pure greed.  Nothing else to be said for it 

There have been 32 of them sold on eBay since Agritechnica; the most expensive went for 551 Euros, soon after the show.  The next most expensive was 516 Euros and they gradually dropped after that to 350 to 400 Euros on average. 

I honestly don't think they look that good, so I haven't bothered going after any, and in any case, I refuse to squander my hard earned purely to line their pockets.  If others are daft enough to pay such silly prices, well, more fool them  \ 

Apart from the the Britains 42598 JD 8345RT (European Styling), the other ones I know of are:

Ertl 45196A Waterloo Works Employee Edition JD 8345 RT(North American styling) (there may possibly be some gold editions among these, don't know, but as this is cat no 45196A, I would expect there is also a 45196B  ?)

Ertl Prestige 45197 JD 8295RT (North American styling) due out in the US anytime now.  The model will be pretty much the same as the Waterloo edition apart from the number (this was originally listed in the 2010 Ertl/JD catalogue as an 8320 RT, but the more recent Spring flyer shows it as 8295 RT  \ )

There will probably be other variants in the future, but nothing further has been announced yet.

Is this thing International based? I'm sure I have some pictures of one somewhere, looks an awkward thing to drive

Based on a B450 according to the catalogue.

Don't know about driving it, but it was an awkward thing to get into - through the back over the weight