Cropmaster

The last tractor registered today was number 4572 - over double the record set at England last year, and only pre-1977 tractors took part...

A friend of mine and also a FTF'r is the officail adjudicator for this event - he says that the barley has been cut and the plan is that it is still going ahead despite the bad weather and Fingal being cancelled

Yep. Me! I will be one of the adjudicators on the day! I think there will be three in total...

It seems to me that a 1:1 scale model would be best suited for cropmaster. The detail should definitly be superior than a 1:16.

I agree that a 1:16 model has the potential to contain better detail, but how many manufacturers are willing to do them ?

It seems to me that Ertl have produced a very detailed 8530 in 1:32 scale much better is not needed in my collection. However I sincerly hope that Siku can create a little better detailed 1:32 models.

I have enough 1:1 scale models at the moment! Siku's 1:32 scale models could indeed be more detailed. However, many of their 1/32 scale tractors were designed as toys and not necessarily as collectors' items. The steering mechanism of many of Siku's 1:32 scale tractors for example, is very user friendly and easy to operate. This, along with features such as tractor cabs without plastic 'glass' make such models easier for children to play with than Britains' tractors. 

Well it's all assumption at this point. As UH haven't made a 1:32 model to rival the 1:16 YOU can't say that the 1:16 would be better as it hasn't happened. If it were to happen then 1:16 would NO ADVANTAGES AT ALL 

Even if UH did their best to produce highly detailed 1/32 scale models of their vintage tractors, it would simply be physically impossible (for reasons outlined in my previous posts) for these models to contain some of the finer details that can be incorporated into the larger 1/16 scale versions. Thus, one can say that 1/32 scale models would not be as detailed as 1/16 scale replicas! ;D

The advantage is that they would sell more.

That's not an advantage from the consumer's point of view!

And Rick, nobody is "whacking people over the head" with ideas, we are simply debating the topic!

Look guys, it's a simple as this: 1/32 scale versions of UH's vintage tractors would simply not be as accurate or as detailed as the current 1/16 scale models. Therefore, 1/32 scale versions of these tractors would have no real advantage over 1/16 scale models at all (apart from somewhat trivial advantages such as the fact that they do not take up as much space, an advantage clearly outweighed by the benefit of having a much more detailed 1/16 scale replica).

Now, clearly, most people here collect 1/32 scale models. If you had read the first post carefully you would have noted that I am not talking of 1/32 scale models Vs 1/16 models in general, but why 1/32 scale versions of UH's vintage tractors would have no 'real' advantage over the 1/16 scale models on sale at the moment. This is the point. Not why people should collect 1/16 scale models as opposed to 1/32 scale models, a point you seem to be arguing. Before you start to argue F-P, read the initial post carefully, to see what the exact motion of the debate is! :

Britfarmer, I have never contradicted myself. Yes, many manufacturers produce 1/32 scale versions of their tractors to avoid having to include the extra detail that would be required on a 1/16 scale version. I said in a previous post that SOME DETAILS, such as injector pipes and other relatively small components on the real tractor could not possibly be included on a 1/32 scale tractor, but could feature on a 1/16 scale version. These two statements do not contradict each other in any way. 

Beginning, Middle and End.

I've highlighted a statement from your first post.......

It is my opinion that you are very wrong, and this is my point...... I do not own a 1:16 scale model and apart from the inevitable purchase of Marky's 1:16 scale fergie I doubt I will ever own another..... if I was given one it would most likely be sold unless it was something VERY special. I'm sure that the majority of collectors who visit this forum are of the same opinion for the same or similar reasons that have already been stated in this topic. If you've ever had the pleasure of looking at a scaledown model or one of DBP's models you will see that it is possible to add very good detail to a model in 1:32 scale and I will go as far as to say that these models are far more superior to the 1:16 models you seem to be raving on about  just down to the fact that far more work goes into building a model in 1:32 scale than a 1:16 scale.

What a silly argument F-P!  ;DJust because someone spends more time building a model does not mean that it is better. The amount of time that goes into building a model is nothing to do with how accurate or detailed it is. Clearly a hand built scaledown model takes more time to produce than a mass-produced UH tractor. This does not in any way imply that it is of superior quality.

In my opinion, no 1/32 scale model on the market today is as detailed as the 1/16 scale UH range of vintage tractors. While it may be possible to include great detail in a 1/32 scale model, it would be physically impossible for models in this scale to be as detailed as 1/16 scale versions made by the same manufacturer, of the same tractor. This you cannot argue with!    ;D

No, it is not the same discussion, as here we are discussing why 1/16 scale models will always be more detailed than 1/32 scale models, if they are of the same tractor, made by the same manufacturer, and each include the greatest possible amount of detail.    :D

I agree F-P, but what people want from their models is a different discussion!

It's a pretty straight forward argument F-P... I have proven my point.  ;DThat's an end to the matter! ;D

The last two 'advantages' you listed F-P are irrelevant. The only reason why there are few implements you can display with 1/16 scale tractors, is that manufacturers have decided not to go to the bother of producing 1/16 scale implements because (a) such models would require a lot more detail, and would thus be more difficult to produce, and (, as a result of (a) there are not many 1/16 scale tractors on the market to attach the implements to. Thus, this is not an advantage of 1/32 scale models over 1/16 scale tractors. The point is that 1/16 scale models of UH's vintage tractors would be more detailed than 1/32 scale versions, and this detail gives 1/16 models an advantage that outweighs any of the 'advantages' you have listed regarding 1/32 scale replicas. 

Well I agree with the two paragraphs Deere-est.

The case however is focusing on why UH's 1/16 scale range of vintage tractors would be superior to 1/32 scale models of the same machines, and not on 1/32 scale Vs 1/16 scale models in general, made by different manufacturers.

I have proven why this is so, and also the fact that if a manufacturer builds two models of the same tractor, one in 1/16 scale and the other in 1/32 scale, including the greatest amount of detail possible in each, the 1/16 scale replica will always be more detailed than the 1/32 scale model. Now the case is adjourned!

That's not the point F-P! :D

No matter how far technology has developed over recent years, a 1/16 scale model of a tractor will always contain more detail than a 1/32 scale version, as it impossible to produce 1/32 scale versions of certain tractor components. Here is the reason why: When you start dividing the actual width of a Fordson Major's diesel injector pipes for example by 32, the resultant scaled width would render including such details impossible on a 1/32 scale model. In 1/16th scale however, UH were able to include these injector pipes on their model of the Power Major. It is the same story with other components of the real life tractor that can be replicated in 1/16 scale, but not in a 1/32. Therefore, if a manufacturer is making a model of a tractor in both 1/32 scale and 1/16 scale, and is making an effort to include the maximum possible amount of detail in each, the 1/16 scale version will always be more detailed.

Q.E.D. ;D

Well all I can say is you must not have too many models Cropmaster either that or you have unlimited storage space and 's. UH may well produce excellent 1/16th models but if that is the only company you are looking at you may find that most 1/32 models are just as detailed as the 1/16th models. Have you seen any of the Ertl models in 1/16th scale Sand box toys is what they are called I believe hardly worthy of any detail.

I don't collect for detail, I collect for what pleases my eye and fits in with my collection. I don't have any UH, Siku or any other manufacturer in my collection.Britains through and through   I am buying Markys MF, not because of detail or scale, but just to support a fellow forums members business venture.

Everyone has there reasons for collecting what they do, and I personally think that the UH would sell better in 1/32. I believe it was mentioned on here quite some time ago that the 1/16 was produced in the hopes of cracking into the North American market.

I am speaking purely about 1/16 scale UH vintage tractors, and the many advantages that their current range of 1/16 replicas would have over a 1/32 scale range of the same tractors, if produced. My point is that 1/32 scale versions, of UH's current range of vintage tractors only, would offer no advantages over the current 1/16 scale range, and therefore I cannot see why people would prefer these models in a smaller scale.

I am not talking about any other 1/16 scale models, made by ERTL or anybody else. 1/16 scale models, if built by the same manufacturer, of the same tractor, including the greatest amount of detail possible, could not possibly be as detailed as 1/16 scale versions, as in 1/32 scale, it would be impossible to include minor details like injector pipes, fuel pipes etc. that feature on 1/16 scale models.

The original post focused on Universal Hobbies' vintage tractor range, and why 1/16 scale models of these tractors would be superior to 1/32 scale models of the same machines. I am not talking about 1/32 Vs 1/16 scale models by other manufacturers, but rather on the reasons why many would prefer if UH made 1/32 scale models of their current 1/16 range.

F-P, bigger is certainly better as far as models of vintage tractors are concerned! 1/32 is too small!

Nashmach, we are simply discussing/debating the topic. There is no argument, and even of we were arguing, I have yet to meet my match! 1/16 scale models are more detailed than 1/32 scale versions, on that I think we can all agree. The only possible advantage of 1/32 scale replicas is that they do not take up as much space. As regards the number of 1/16 scale models on the market, there are clearly more 1/32 scale replicas. However, this is because manufacturers would have to go to a great deal of extra bother by building 1/16 scale models due to the extra detail that would be required. The fact that there are more 1/32 scale tractors on the market is irrelevant, as I am addressing the issue of why people would prefer if UH built 1/32 scale models of their vintage tractors as opposed to 1/16 scale versions. I cannot see any real advantage of 1/32 scale vintage tractors over 1/16 scale models.

On the TE20 naming issue, I will admit that UH made a mistake, but the excellent quality of their models clearly makes up for this! ;D

I really only collect models of the vintage tractors that I have the full-size versions of! 

you can get just as much quality now in 1/32 as you can in 1/16 to be honest, uh have more than proved this with some of there recent stuff , if anything they are more detailed than some of the bigger stuff,

i agree fully with what tris has said in all his comments and jas to, heck if i had all my models in 16th scale i would need a bloody big house i can tell ya,

only the americans seem to like 1/16 to collect , and they seem to like evey thing big 

I disagree. I have yet to see a 1/32 scale model of a tractor or otherwise with more detail than a 1/16 version made by the same manufacturer. Also, in the case of vintage tractors, there are no 1/32 scale models to rival the detail of UH's 1/16 scale range. The fact that many do not have the room for a large number of 1/16 scale models seems to be the only 'advantage' of 1/32 scale replicas put forward...

It's quality not quantity! ;D

Cheaper,   1/16 Scale models are far better value.

easier to come by,   Because manufacturers do not want to go to the bother of building more detailed 1/16 scale versions

larger range available,   See above

better competition between manufacturers, See above

take up less space, Hardly a great reason!

(all of these add up to being more effective for a layout by the way)

large resale/collectors market, See above

more people making one-offs/conversions. See above

All in all it is preference over advantages I think. The majority of the members of this site are into 1/32 in a big way, there is one sign.

I agree the last statement in bold!

I hope UH build a Super Major, as then it would be a small leap from building that to producing a model of a Super Major based County Super 4! However, I would prefer if they concentrated on building a model of the nicest looking vintage tractor around - the DB Cropmaster!

1/32 is the european scale. More people would be upset if UH stopped doing 1/32 scale models than they would if UH stopped doing 1/16. If you want a cabinet full of remarkably accurate models then 1/16 is probably the one to collect. If you want a farm display layout replicating a true English, German, French, Italian, Irish (and so on) farm then it can only be in 1/32.

You still haven't provided me with any advantages that individual 1/32 scale models have over 1/16 scale versions!

From reading the posts on this forum, it seems that many people would prefer Universal Hobbies(UH) produce 1/32 scale models instead of 1/16 scale replicas. Why is this? 1/16 models are far more difficult to produce as they are much more detailed than 1/32 scale versions. One of the main reasons manufacturers build models in the smaller 1/32 scale is to avoid having to replicate every little detail on the 'real life' model. 

And anyway, whereas models of larger modern tractors look reasonable in 1/32 scale, vintage tractors produced in this scale are absolutely tiny!  1/16 is the perfect scale for UH's excellent and extremely accurate models. By producing these 1/16 scale models, UH, unlike many other manufacturers, has gone the extra mile (or light year) in replicating the original tractors. In my opinion UH make the most accurate and the best value models on sale today. 1/16 models of vintage tractors are larger and more detailed than 1/32 scale versions, and therefore are a superior replica of the original machine. I can see no advantage of producing 1/32 scale versions instead!  :D

The first tractor I drove was a red David Brown 950 Implematic. I still have it at home and would never sell it! :D

It's about 35hp. My Diesel Major is about 42hp, so the Major would win hands down. The Cropmaster would probably beat the Ferguson TEF20 tough!!!  :D

A Cropmaster is really only a tractor to admire!  :D