Murray Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hi all we have had some serious bother with our manitou this last 2 weeks, 15 month ago she burst the main boom ram just opened her like a tin can, so we got a new one in this last 2 weeks shes split the factory welds even tho this ram was stronger she also snapped the main casting on the leveling ram and today she ripped open the welds on the crowding ram, and its not like we are being hard on her because we do the same jobs with her day in day out e.g feed cattle muck calttle and feed sheep, we got on the phone to manitou and they were not wiling to help as they have not came across the problem at all before, what i think we need in a new controler on the pump as she may be pumping to much through the rams \ boss is seriously thinking about a trade in whats your views on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robl12 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I would have thought that the seals on the rams would go first if it was over pressurising due to high flow. ??? Think I would be looking at getting rid of it. Also if it was high oil flow I would think that manitou would have heard about it before as if you suspect the controller had failed yours would not be the only one. I would imagine they are reckoning on overloading on the parts ??? that is why they will not touch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick a Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hi all we have had some serious bother with our manitou this last 2 weeks, 15 month ago she burst the main boom ram just opened her like a tin can, so we got a new one in this last 2 weeks shes split the factory welds even tho this ram was stronger she also snapped the main casting on the leveling ram and today she ripped open the welds on the crowding ram, and its not like we are being hard on her because we do the same jobs with her day in day out e.g feed cattle muck calttle and feed sheep, we got on the phone to manitou and they were not wiling to help as they have not came across the problem at all before, what i think we need in a new controler on the pump as she may be pumping to much through the rams \ boss is seriously thinking about a trade in whats your views on this these machines have main hydraulic relief vave to protect hydraulic pump and valve block, each slice or bank on spool block has auxiliary releif valve to protect each circuit. it does not sound like a main pump releif valve problem but auxiliary relief valve faults on affected circuits. if she has always had exceptional tear out and other performance perhaps its been due to high settings and with wear taken place high pressures have been achieved. auxiliary relief valves suppose to protect rams and linkages. so i guess if she had better than average performance these might be the culprit!. was she ex demostrator . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 I would have thought that the seals on the rams would go first if it was over pressurising due to high flow. ??? Think I would be looking at getting rid of it. Also if it was high oil flow I would think that manitou would have heard about it before as if you suspect the controller had failed yours would not be the only one. I would imagine they are reckoning on overloading on the parts ??? that is why they will not touch it. well Rob we put her to our local dealers to get sorted before but one of there men if i am correct went about fixing the pump before but did not do it right, we ither get a new pump or controller, the ram manitou is sending to us this time has a new part number this is there third change in part numbers so there rams are getting stronger, the reason they did not deal with us direct i dont know, we had to deal with our dealers for anything \ it seems so strange that she just rips rams apart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 these machines have main hydraulic relief vave to protect hydraulic pump and valve block, each slice or bank on spool block has auxiliary releif valve to protect each circuit. it does not sound like a main pump releif valve problem but auxiliary relief valve faults on affected circuits. if she has always had exceptional tear out and other performance perhaps its been due to high settings and with wear taken place high pressures have been achieved. auxiliary relief valves suppose to protect rams and linkages. so i guess if she had better than average performance these might be the culprit!. was she ex demostrator . could be getting to something there nick, well know she came from aberdeen the lad had 3 of these but solt us one he did alot of potatoes with it bits and bobs like that, but when she came home to us she had all 3 rams were new like even the guy before us replaced them, think my boss is gonna try a new pump or just replace it \ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robl12 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 these machines have main hydraulic relief vave to protect hydraulic pump and valve block, each slice or bank on spool block has auxiliary releif valve to protect each circuit. it does not sound like a main pump releif valve problem but auxiliary relief valve faults on affected circuits. if she has always had exceptional tear out and other performance perhaps its been due to high settings and with wear taken place high pressures have been achieved. auxiliary relief valves suppose to protect rams and linkages. so i guess if she had better than average performance these might be the culprit!. was she ex demostrator . Nick what type of RV's are on these? Most RV's are spring type, ie spring rated to certain pressure, once that pressure is acheived/ bettered the valve will lift off it's seat and relieve the pressure. A failure of these would have to have been caused by and extreme overpressure to damage the spring. It would have to have been a very excessive pressure to damage the spring that much, Relief valves happen to be a pet subject working in the oil industry have never seen one fail closed but seen many fail/ stuck open which would relieve the pressue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick a Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 well Rob we put her to our local dealers to get sorted before but one of there men if i am correct went about fixing the pump before but dod not do it right, we ither get a new pump or controller, the ram manitou is sending to us this time has a new part number this is there third change in part numbers so there rams are getting stronger, the reason they did not deal with us direct i dont know, we had to deal with our dealers for anything \ it seems so strange that she just rips rams apart faulty auxiliary relief valve will notcrack and release pressure if they are stuck, believe it or not ram seals will take enormous pressures i have seem plenty of bent rams and damaged rams due to faulty valves being set too high or jammed. tipping links for tipping and crowding carriages snapped like carrots!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick a Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Nick what type of RV's are on these? Most RV's are spring type, ie spring rated to certain pressure, once that pressure is acheived/ bettered the valve will lift off it's seat and relieve the pressure. A failure of these would have to have been caused by and extreme overpressure to damage the spring. It would have to have been a very excessive pressure to damage the spring that much, Relief valves happen to be a pet subject working in the oil industry have never seen one fail closed but seen many fail/ stuck open which would relieve the pressue yes these are pe loaded relef valves but the inner spool land of certain makes at high temperatures get sticky and seize and do not crack off venting the circuit. they are generally set higher than main relief valve so if pump is kept pumping with a spool open to a circuit the pressure in the ram can get very high. if auxulkiary relief valve is stuck and then doesnt lift along comes problems. the valves are set that way to enable tear out so rams dont fold and let go in work. i wont name names for obvious reasons but harsco valves are generally bullet proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 well i dont know the dealers does not know who knows but its a fair kick in the back side spending most of your day fixing rams that should not even be burst in the first place , so easily aswell i will get pics tomorrow of the damage she done to one ram she tore the hole bottom out of one, even though its not big cracks its just hairline cracks then they get worse if not noticed, its like the his trying to rip the top of the rams everytime \ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robl12 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Sounds like a load of fault finding is on the cards Murray and if you change all the RV's frst may save you alot compared to a pump. Also cannot understand why manitou don't want to know??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick a Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Sounds like a load of fault finding is on the cards Murray and if you change all the RV's frst may save you alot compared to a pump. Also cannot understand why manitou don't want to know??? i suspect change of supplier for hydraulic components- guessing problem is known but involves valve block replacement as other auxiliary valves not interchangeable. thus giving them major expense. ive worked as service engineer for a manufacturer that produces both ag and construction machines i bet if you had been a construction customer you would have received more help. try contacting ivor binns at manitou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 we have had lots of troubles with her Rob, every time you touch the leaver to do something she would stall just like that, she broke the main drive from the engine to the gear box, she even ripped the ram apart on the headstock, and we are not hard on her ither we just dander about the yard no harshness whats so ever, its strange i know we just have to do everything through the dealers, he wants a new loader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 i suspect change of supplier for hydraulic components- guessing problem is known but involves valve block replacement as other auxiliary valves not interchangeable. thus giving them major expense. ive worked as service engineer for a manufacturer that produces both ag and construction machines i bet if you had been a construction customer you would have received more help. try contacting ivor binns at manitou. thanks for that nick will speek to the boss tomorrow about it \ it seems to be the welding thats faulty right now, we have a guy who lives not to far from us and he works with a lot of heavy gear and his knowlage to machines is outstanding anyways he has been gouging the the factory welds out the rams and puting in his own welds twice as thick and twice as wide, and they seem to be holding, even so there must be a fair bit of pressure in there to blow a factory weld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 sounds like your better off getting rid of it if you've had that much trouble with it tell me about it, he wants a cat tho but our contractor bought a new version manitou and he's had no bother with it so hopfully he goes for another manitou but the newer style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 get the landini loadall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav836 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Post up your problems with it on BFF Murray, you'll soon find out if you are the only ones having these problems with a Manitou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey man Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 tell me about it, he wants a cat tho but our contractor bought a new version manitou and he's had no bother with it so hopfully he goes for another manitou but the newer style dont be geting a cat!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 get the landini loadall what a joker Post up your problems with it on BFF Murray, you'll soon find out if you are the only ones having these problems with a Manitou thanks Gav might give that a shot \ dont be geting a cat!!! thats what i told him well a delivery came to the farm today with 3 thumper of a rams dont think these ones will break now touch wood, still think the pump is forcing to much pressure in the ram though \ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 its on BFF now Gav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav836 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 If anyone can help I'm sure someone will on there as I know there is a user on there having really big trouble with a new Manitou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 If anyone can help I'm sure someone will on there as I know there is a user on there having really big trouble with a new Manitou well this last while we have been shaking straw bales out for bedding that burst the first one, when we got a new one the bosses son put the second one out shaking bales again..... so surly theres something up with that there pretty much built to do stuff like that \ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav836 Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 We do it daily with our JCB 526 with no problems so they should stick it, it's got to be a pressure problem as the chances of all the rams having a flaw in are remote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 Well its like when we shake the bale the hole time the oil goes in but not back out as quick but she forces more in, yes the ram flexes a little but with the force thats going in her something has to give shame its the welds \ would be different if it was hoses that was getting blown, the main ram was £1400 the crowding one was £800 and the leveling one was £400, thats alot of money to replace rams every 5 month or so even less so something has to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich.new holland Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 whats the age on this manitou ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 whats the age on this manitou ?? 4 or 5, not even 5000 hours on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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