Britains lead era missing number mysteries

[david_scrivener]

As some of you will know, Britains Ltd produced special sets to order, say for specific major retailers such as Hamleys, which were allotted catalogue numbers even though they never appeared in their catalogues, probably because Britains thought they might want to produce them for their main range sometime in the future. There were also some individual items which were either never given numbers, as far as is known, such as the fixed arm lead farmer's wife and the walking donkey, or were listed, but were so short lived they only appeared in a 'New Lines' leaflet (have all these leaflets been discovered by Joplin, Opie, at al?), such as #663, the 1938 only folding table (as #617 + hole in centre of table top) with sunshade (paper cocktail umbrella), and the 1958 only range of farm buildings, 158F to 170F. So, the question is, were Britains intending something for any/many/all of the 'unknown' catalogue numbers (limiting the question as far as this forum is concerned to the farm range), which never happened for whatever reason?

In the hope that others here will either be able to provide some concrete info on those missing numbers, or can add to 'what if' speculation, I'll kick off with a couple of suggestions: (1) Was the big post-war farm number gap, #716-743, intended for new figures designed for the US market, as Britains Ltd was under government pressure to export as much as possible? Some American style farm people, like those made at the same period by Crescent, might have sold well there. (2) Was the fixed arm Farmer's Wife from an intended range of cheapy 2nd grade lead farm figures circa 1950 (filling in #759 to #768), when the 2nd grade soldier ranges were being relaunched?

[powerrabbit]

There's a couple of posers for the experts! Could be an idea to email Joplin himself and ask. I did read somewhere that Hamblys did sell toys that were made for their London store exclusively and therefore would not have been retailed by any other stores.

[super6]

663 was only shown in the 1939 catalogue price list as New Line. Not shown in the 1940 catalogue. Joe Wallis records it as being Cafe Table with Sun Shade he states that it may have used the parasol from the Flying Trapeze set!

With regard to the farm building range 158F to 170F I cannot find any reference to these at all. They are not listed in the 1958 catalogue, new lines catalogue or price list. Where did you get your information from?

The two publications, I have, by Joe Wallis have lists of new lines, pre and post war, in chronological order.

Your unknown catalogue numbers were most likely for future use and never used as they changed their numbering system in 1962? Even with this system they did not use all numbers available. See the small farm buildings for an example of this. There may have been products in the pipeline, allocated these numbers,  that were not carried through to production, the numbers then being lost or deferred. The opposite of this being their reuse of numbers in the rest of the farm range, go figure?

[david_scrivener]

663 was only shown in the 1939 catalogue price list as New Line. Not shown in the 1940 catalogue. Joe Wallis records it as being Cafe Table with Sun Shade he states that it may have used the parasol from the Flying Trapeze set!

With regard to the farm building range 158F to 170F I cannot find any reference to these at all. They are not listed in the 1958 catalogue, new lines catalogue or price list. Where did you get your information from?

The two publications, I have, by Joe Wallis have lists of new lines, pre and post war, in chronological order.

Your unknown catalogue numbers were most likely for future use and never used as they changed their numbering system in 1962?

The sun shade was indeed the same item as the flying trapeze parasol, and it was a cocktail umbrella bought in for both purposes (a lot cheaper and easier for them than making some specially). I made a mistake of one year re the buildings 158F to 170F, which indeed Joe Wallis apparently didn't know about (I've got his books too, excellent, but a few things have come to light since). These buildings were in the 1959 Crown Range (2nd qual soldiers etc) leaflet only (I have a photocopy of it), and never made it to the 1959 or 1960 catalogues. James Opie gives details in his Great Book of Britains, a list on pages 483-484, and a photo of Britains Showroom on page 497, with some of them ( top row: 165, 160 & 159, 166, 2nd row:163, 164, 168, 2 more laying flat not clearly visible, 3rd 167) displayed on the wall in the background. I am, of course, aware of the 1962 numbering change, so was only referring to items before then.

[super6]

The buildings would not have made the 1959 catalogue as it was a two year one with 1958. You must be aware that 1960 saw the introduction of new farm buildings as 500F to 505F. There are some pictures from the new lines catalogue on here somewhere, under Britains buildings I believe.

I should like to see your 1959 crown range leaflet (copy) as still good as reference material. I have a couple from 1957 and 8, but there aren't any farm related items within, so not really my thing.

I do not have the James Opie book, to dear for me! As with all reference books they, the Joe Wallis ones, are by no means definitive.

I only used the 1962 numbering system to help make a point with Britain's usage of their numbering systems 

[valtra130]

i also have the 1959 new lines/crown leaflet , has a complete set of farm buildings and farmyards which are very very rare , when they do turn upthey either make next to nothing as nobody realises what they are or a small fortune as some people do know how rare they are !!! great hunting though !!

[david_scrivener]

Shh, don't tell everyone! 

[THEBRITFARMER]

i also have the 1959 new lines/crown leaflet , has a complete set of farm buildings and farmyards which are very very rare , when they do turn upthey either make next to nothing as nobody realises what they are or a small fortune as some people do know how rare they are !!! great hunting though !!

Any photos of these items?