Britains Catologues 1970-1979

[IH885XLMAN]

By far one of the best reads in a very long time lovely reproduced

all the catologues in the golden decade of british farm toys

suprised to find a few things that only lasted one year and some

models not listed NEW like the ford 6600 replaceing the 5000

briliant book

[Paul Palmer]

By far one of the best reads in a very long time lovely reproduced

all the catologues in the golden decade of british farm toys

suprised to find a few things that only lasted one year and some

models not listed NEW like the ford 6600 replaceing the 5000

briliant book

any pictures?

[ploughmaster]

suprised to find a few things that only lasted one year and some

models not listed NEW like the ford 6600 replaceing the 5000

Perhaps back then Britains saw it as a simple update to the existing 5000, rather than a new model?  In similar fashion, neither the Ford 'Force' 5000 nor the 5000 with safety cab and 'steer-o-matic' were announced as new models (in 1969 and 1973 respectively)although the 6600 gained a new catalogue number (9524) whilst all versions of the 5000s carried the same catalogue number (9527).

The cabless version of the MF 135 wasn't starred as new either - both that and the 6600 were first shown in the 1976 catalogue which was probably the most basic catalogue they ever produced; it didn't show the catalogue numbers for any of the models, and the accompanying price list had a lot of gaps in it.

Note also in the '76 catalogue the High Sided Tipping Trailer (9566) with the early prototype/pre-production yellow 'High Sided Tipper Cart' decal, and fitted with army green wheels - a version I have not seen in reality (yet!!)

It is certainly a very useful book, and for reference purposes saves a lot of wear and tear on the now rather pricey originals (I've seen top condition copies of the early 70's catalogues selling for £30 to £40 recently  ). 

[david_scrivener]

.......and back in November one of the 1963 farm leaflets sold for £47.01p on Ebay!

Those who don't know, it's just a single sheet, 23x16cm. There was a similar leaflet on the zoo range, followed in 1964 by a leaflet covering various soldiers, motorbikes, the petrol pump range, etc, both leaflets equally rare. The slightly earlier (1962?) Floral Garden leaflet is not quite as rare because it was included in many sets. 

[ploughmaster]

Yes, I saw that Farm one.  An awful lot of money for a single sheet of paper    Fortunately, I already had it (I think it cost me £15 in 2000).

I have two different Floral Garden leaflets - one with the code S.A.32 which appears to show the 1962 ange, and one with the code S.A.32/64 which includes the 1963 additions/changes.  I assume from the '64' suffix that it was issued in late 1963 or very early 1964 (before the 1964 changes took effect - some of the flowers were re-modelled and the replacements issued under different catalogue numbers during 1964).

I have the Farm (S.A.37), Zoo (S.A.38), and Swoppets/Eyes Right/Guns/Motor Cycle/Garage/Tractor & Rear Dump (S.A.41/64).  As with the Floral leaflet, the Swoppet etc one includes changes to the ranges from 1963.

I wondered if they issued two different versions of all these leaflets? (although the Floral one is the only one I have found in both versions so far). Was there an earlier Swoppets one (S.A.41), or a later Farm S.A.37/64 or Zoo S.A.38/64??  Would be nice to know if anyone has them  \

[david_scrivener]

Dunno, I've only got one version of each, which got all for free back at the time when I was a kid, and just as much an obsessive Britains collector as I am now. Showing my age a bit there.

As for £47 being a lot for a single sheet of paper - best not to look at the stamp collecting part of Ebay - lots more for tiny scraps of paper  . I did the stamp collecting thing when I was a kid/teenager too. Still got my collection, some good'uns there, but haven't added much to it for years - I still like the old African (K.U.T. etc) British Colonial issues though. 

[super6]

First and foremost I have this book, a Christmas present no less! and well worth the money (I hope my niece got a good deal  )

Not meaning to denigrate it in anyway, its a shame it was not in a slightly bigger format and why not start with the '63-4 leaflets and so on? I would also liked to have seen the price lists printed in their entirety as some price omissions are not explained/obvious, where an item is shown in the catalogue. This seems to be where the '76 catalogue is concerned.

Okay, the 1976 trade catalogue is nothing like the customer one, its very similar to the 1975 trade and customer one, as these(trade ones) are the same(as customer ones) but with an extra bit on the bottom of the page(s) If the '76 customer one had been based on the trade catalogue it would have been so much better, but there you have it!!!!

The Ford 6600 is shown/listed as new but the MF 135 is not so perhaps this was issued towards the end of 1975?

With regard the High sided tipper cart I always thought this was shown on blue wheels as per the Bamford baler?

Also noticed that the '74 and '75 catalogues show the trailer with the production standard Land Rover wheels.

The '76 customer catalogue was/is a pretty poor effort I think.

'63-4 leaflets

I have these Zoo ones, SA 38 and SA 38/64. My version of the latter being in French with printed on prices, in Francs. This one has the three enclosures and railings instead of trees.

With regards the farm, floral and eyes right leaflets I have the ones listed by ploughmaster.

 

[ploughmaster]

As for £47 being a lot for a single sheet of paper - best not to look at the stamp collecting part of Ebay - lots more for tiny scraps of paper  . I did the stamp collecting thing when I was a kid/teenager too.

I know, I did too until 2000, but it was getting too expensive and it was that or the toys (maybe I should have stuck with stamps - they take up a lot less room  )

....its a shame it was not in a slightly bigger format and why not start with the '63-4 leaflets and so on? I would also liked to have seen the price lists printed in their entirety as some price omissions are not explained/obvious, where an item is shown in the catalogue. This seems to be where the '76 catalogue is concerned.

I think the size was chosen to be similar to the size of the originals (to avoid the consequent lack of sharpness/clarity that would have resulted from enlarging the scans of the original catalogue pages).  1970 to '79 is a good starting point - there is a lot of interest in this era, but availability of catalogues for these years is rather limited (and expensive) compared with the ones from the 1980's onwards. It was also quite an exciting decade when there were a lot of changes/new additions to the ranges, whereas the changes from year to year in the 60's were quite few. 

There is a footnote (at both begining and end of both the 'by name' and 'by code' sections indicating that a '-' symbol denoted a missing price  , although it perhaps could have had an expanded explanation as to why.

Perhaps David might be persuaded to do a similar excercise for the earlier issues (1960 to '69), but it would require the access to all the relevant catalogues (and price lists  ), which might have been an issue?.  It will also probably depend how successful this edition is.

The Ford 6600 is shown/listed as new but the MF 135 is not so perhaps this was issued towards the end of 1975?

Possibly, but then again, I remember the transition models of the 5000/6600 were already about in about August '75 and I think the 6600 themselves were around before the end of the year.

With regard the High sided tipper cart I always thought this was shown on blue wheels as per the Bamford baler?

I've had another good look at the pic of it in the '76 trade catalogue, and I am still inclined to think they are the green wheels as fitted to the Kubelwagen and some of the guns (the mouldings were the same as those used for the single axle horse box), but the pics aren't large/clear enough to be absolutely certain.

...I have these Zoo ones, SA 38 and SA 38/64.

Thanks for that, looks possible that there may have been '/64' editions of the others too    More to look for!

[super6]

I think the size was chosen to be similar to the size of the originals (to avoid the consequent lack of sharpness/clarity that would have resulted from enlarging the scans of the original catalogue pages).  1970 to '79 is a good starting point - there is a lot of interest in this era, but availability of catalogues for these years is rather limited (and expensive) compared with the ones from the 1980's onwards. It was also quite an exciting decade when there were a lot of changes/new additions to the ranges, whereas the changes from year to year in the 60's were quite few.   

Point taken, definitely expensive 

Perhaps David might be persuaded to do a similar excercise for the earlier issues (1960 to '69), but it would require the access to all the relevant catalogues (and price lists  ), which might have been an issue?.  It will also probably depend how successful this edition is.

I was thinking more along the lines of '63 onwards, to include the leaflets. Tracking these all down may take some time   I don't know too much about earlier, pre '63, customer catalogues, I know they were available as pocket editions, presumably as miniaturised versions of the trade ones. I have a couple, from 1955 and '59 but not the relevant trade editions...........as yet! or price lists.

. I've had another good look at the picture of it in the '76 trade catalogue, and I am still inclined to think they are the green wheels as fitted to the Kubelwagen and some of the guns (the mouldings were the same as those used for the single axle horse box), but the pictures aren't large/clear enough to be absolutely certain.

Thanks for that, looks possible that there may have been '/64' editions of the others too    More to look for!

I think I see what you are getting at, the wheel centres (in BLUE  ) are all the same with regard size/style but the horse box has much chunkier tyres fitted it . As you said the picture is too small to be realy sure.

More to look for!.............you and me both.

I have only ever seen two of the Swappet leaflets and I own one of them, thanks david_s, the other on EBay a little while back. Have seen a few of the farm ones, all the same though, and yes they are not cheap either!!!!

[david_scrivener]

When it comes to deciding when would be a logical starting point for modern or plastic era Britains items, I think we can give two dates. As far as animals, people, etc are concerned, simples, its either made of plastic or lead! There was obviously some overlap, from about 1953, when Myer Zang started plastic moulding, to 1966 when Britains cut all lead figures apart from the 2 royal coaches (they went in 1967). Most lead farm (& zoo) animals etc were cut out in 1958/9.

Perhaps lead era books/guides of the farm range should, for the sake of numbering completeness for us obsessives, include the plastic-based-on-lead-moulds animals/shepherd/bucket girl, which were initially numbered on from the lead sequence, 801 to 821, before being renumbered in 1962. 

As far as tractors, implements, horse drawn vehicles, etc., are concerned, I think we should focus on the 1962 renumbering, so we have:

Items which only had xxxF numbers are purely 'lead era'.

Items which had xxxF numbers, were renumbered, and continued, should be included in both 'lead era' and 'plastic era' guides/books, etc.

Items, post 1962, only 'plastic era'.

Talking of which, has anyone ever seen the 1960 & 1961 farm items 171F (Fordson tractor, metal wheels) to 176F (acrobat rake) in a box with these numbers, perhaps even old type Britains farm implement boxes (the ones with the farmyard scene pictures)?

I've seen a picture of the 3-furrow plough 173F in one of the picture pack boxes, but that's it; otherwise I've only seen these with the new Herald numbers, in plinth boxes for the tractors & packing crate style+plinth inside for the implements.

[ploughmaster]

I have several earlier implements in the '50s style 'Farm Picture Pack' boxes with the 'F' numbers - apart from 173F, I have various Rollers (136F), Disc Harrows (135F), Cultivator (175F), Trailer Plough (138F), Two Wheeled Tipping Trailer (130F) and also the Fordson Super Major on rubber tyres (172F) in a sleeve and plinth box, all with 'F' suffix numbers. 

The sleeve and plinth (or 'packing case' pattern) boxes pre-date the numbering change as I have both 174F and 175F in the sleeve and plinth boxes:

174F:

175F:

Note the lack of end flaps on the Cultivator box - they are not missing; the earliest sleeve and plinth boxes were issued like this.

175F Cultivator was only released in 1960, so was only around for a couple of years before its number changed, and that also indicates that the other implements already in production were probably put ito sleeve and plinth/packing crate boxes with an 'F' number. 

The Acrobat Rake was released in 1961, and was shown as a new item, numbered 176F, in the 1961 trade catalogue accompanied by a picture of it sitting in position within the plinth of the packing crate box, so it must have been released in the sleeve and plinth box with an 'F' number, although I have not seen one. 

[Paul Palmer]

any chance of some pictures of the actual book please!!!!!!!!!!!!

[david_scrivener]

Thanks for those photos ploughmaster. So, it seems the 1960 issues started in packing case type boxes, & plinth boxes for the tractors, or near enough. This makes the 173F 3-furrow plough I saw in a picture pack box a bit of a mystery - perhaps a very short term measure because they temporarily ran out of proper boxes sometime.

The earlier implements, 130F, 135F, 136F, 138F, in 1950s pictorial boxes I know about, and even have 2 of them.

It would be nice to know who the artist was. 

[ploughmaster]

any chance of some pictures of the actual book please!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have a look on Google Books:  http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8GVVoD8_OAUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=britains+catalogues+pullen&source=bl&ots=64twS98VrL&sig=6zu76isFwKeDrvSNIZgH3GnNO6w&hl=en&ei=Cb4wTbuqJMyxhAfI8cnuCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEEQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Cover:

[img height=677 width=960]http://www.veloce.co.uk/newsletter/sellercovers/9781845842758.jpg

[ploughmaster]

This makes the 173F 3-furrow plough I saw in a picture pack box a bit of a mystery - perhaps a very short term measure because they temporarily ran out of proper boxes sometime.

According to James Opie, the two Fordson Power Major tractors (171F & 172F), the Muledozer (174F) and Three Furrow Plough (173F) were released in 1959.

I have 173F in a picture pack, and I am sure I recall seeing the Muledozer in one also.  I also have the Cultivator (175F) in a picture pack (it was issued in 1960!).  \

It seems probable that the sleeve and plinth/packing crate style boxes were probably not introduced for the implements until 1961?, and that 173F , 174F and 175F were issued in the previous style Farm Picture Packs/Duck and Egg boxes in 1959/60? Consequently there won't be that many of them around.

[Paul Palmer]

Have a look on Google Books:  http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8GVVoD8_OAUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=britains+catalogues+pullen&source=bl&ots=64twS98VrL&sig=6zu76isFwKeDrvSNIZgH3GnNO6w&hl=en&ei=Cb4wTbuqJMyxhAfI8cnuCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEEQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Cover:

thanks for the link ploughmaster

[MDFord]

Thanks for posting those pictures ploughmaster, I've never really seen much of these style of packaging.

I like the packing case effect on the sleeve with the stencil type of printed letters. Can the implements be removed without damaging the packaging ?

If you ever get time to post pictures of anything similar, I'm sure many on here would like to see some more 

[david_scrivener]

According to James Opie, the two Fordson Power Major tractors (171F & 172F), the Muledozer (174F) and Three Furrow Plough (173F) were released in 1959.  It seems probable that the sleeve and plinth/packing crate style boxes were probably not introduced for the implements until 1960/61?, and that 173F and 174F were issued in the previous style Farm Picture Packs/Duck and Egg boxes in 1959/60? Consequently there won't be that many of either around.

I have 173F in a picture pack, and I am sure I recall seeing the Muledozer  in one also  \

In this case, Mr Opie might be wrong, or at least only just right if they were introduced near the end of the year for the Christmas trade.

I have a 1959 catalogue - none of them in that.

I have a June 1960 trade price list - includes 171F to 175F. Would be nice to see October 1959 & January 1960 trade price lists - which would settle the issue as they would clarify whether they were out to the shops in time for Xmas 1959.

I have 1961 catalogue & January 1961 trade price list - includes 176F acrobat rake as a 'new line' in the plinth/packing crate box. 

[ploughmaster]

Up to the 1960 trade catalogue, new items were not shown in the main catalogue for the year in which they were released, but were put in a seperate 'New Lines' catalogue/leaflet.  I don't have the one for 1959, but the 1960 New Lines leaflet shows the Cultivator (175F) as the only new farm item that year (175F isn't shown in the full trade catalogue for 1960, but both 173F and 174F are).  The first trade catalogue to incorporate the new lines was 1961.

Note I have modified my previous post as I also have the 175F Cultivator (first issued in 1960) in a picture pack, which suggests that they were replaced by the packing crate boxes during 1960/early 1961:

[super6]

176F/9537 in packing case box

When you say Picture Pack I presume you mean Duck and Egg boxes.

Available in Duck and Egg boxes to my, limited and by no means exhaustive, knowledge:-

130F Tipping Trailer, with picture of contents;

138F 4 Furrow Plough, with line drawing of contents to side of box;

174F Muledozer, no picture of contents.

138F and 174F using the same type/size of box as per the Cultivator of ploughmaster .

138F in a long thin box with a colour picture on the front also in a packing crate box without end flaps;

135F Disc Harrow and 136F Roller with colour picture of contents;

173F 3 Furrow Plough with printing to side of box stating contents, no picture of contents.

Not forgetting the Clockwork Trailer, the one I have is not a duck and Egg box, and the Timber Trailer. I don't recall ever seeing this last item in the Duck and Egg box but would imagine that they were issued this way as the E27N tractors were.

Some pictures to follow.............memory willing 

[ploughmaster]

I like the packing case effect on the sleeve with the stencil type of printed letters. Can the implements be removed without damaging the packaging ?

They can be removed without damaging the packing, but it requires care.  Very few of these models have survived with the card straps and strengtheners intact unless they have never been removed (ex shop) or have belonged to a collector (or very careful owner) from new.  The cards were usually torn off to release the toy.

To release them requires the ends of the plinth opening up and the tabs on the ends of the card supports/straps folding flat to allow them to be pushed back up through the slots in the plinth - you sometimes see such as the roller, disc harrow or cultivator with the remains of the pieces of card, usually torn off at the bottom on one side and, if you're lucky, the detached part loose in the plinth - the parts can be glued together again if so).  Sadly, the vast majority of these models, even if boxed and mint or near mint are usually missing the extra packaging altogether.

Thanks for that list and the pics Super6.  I don't think I have seen the 174F S&P box with a sticky label for the number change before; very interesting.

To confirm, yes I was referring to the 'duck and egg' type of box, but referred to them as 'Farm Picture Pack' as that was the official Britains name for them; I perhaps should have clarified that. 

Just to further complicate matters, I have the Milk Float with Plastic Horse (9501) (the set without the milkman, as opposed to 9503 which included him) in a picture pack (duck and egg box), but with the later 95** number on it (I also have the Tumbrel Cart (9505) in a similar box:

[ploughmaster]

Not forgetting the Clockwork Trailer, the one I have is not a duck and Egg box, and the Timber Trailer. I don't recall ever seeing this last item in the Duck and Egg box but would imagine that they were issued this way as the E27N tractors were.

I haved never seen the Clockwork Trailer in a 'Duck and Egg' box; I am not sure if it was ever packaged in a farm style box other than in sets with a tractor as it covered the military side as well.  The ones I have seen were either earlier ones in the military type red box with lid, or a later 'catch-all' style Picture Pack with drawings of three of the vehicles it could be used with on the underneath (including the E27N):

Like you, I have only ever seen the second type Timber Trailer in a Sleeve and Plinth box, or the earlier one in the green box with the label on the lid. It would be interesting to know if anyone has one in a picture pack (or even come across one at any time)?

[Paul Palmer]

although the items and pictures are great of the older britains gear, the topic is about the britains catalogue book,this topic is way off that

[ploughmaster]

Very true, perhaps Admin could pare off the non relevant posts and put them in a new thread in the Britains section    It has rather veered off (as these threads are wont to do  )

A previous discussion was begun on the book back when it was first published, but after an initial flurry of posts, it kind of fizzled out: http://www.farmtoysforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,31086.0.html

[david_scrivener]

although the items and pictures are great of the older britains gear, the topic is about the britains catalogue book,this topic is way off that

It might be said that the derail into older Britains items, and where metaphorical lines should be drawn between 'lead era' and 'plastic era' is all relevent to the catalogue book, because we are wondering why David Pullen chose 1970-79 as the period for his book, and, if Mr Pullen is reading this thread, what he might do next. Perhaps a book of catalogues & leaflets up to 1969? Then the discussion we've had becomes relevent - when would it start? Different dates for figures (i.e. if its plastic, its in) than the vehicles, horses/carts etc., (clearly, a bit more complicated).