Help needed and information on 1925 silver "Quaich's"...I think

[BC]

You might have seen an earlier post under GD on carpenters rules or measuring stick's and if you have this is another item next door passed on to me from their old friend Flora who has been recently admitted to an old folks home in Peterculter / Milltimber. Anyway next door thought given I attended many rallies these "Quaich's" could perhaps be donated as a prize at one the local rallies. It says Banchory Recreation Grounds BAZAAR 1925. They are very shiny and well I don't really know about silver and hallmarks etc but all I can see from the bottom's are 8725 something in the middle and 3 below.....anyone know about silver things

Anyway I was quite pleased to have started another collection...shiny...silver things ;D

[powerrabbit]

They are, if indeed silver, are continental in origin I would say. Having said that though, not all silver was hallmarked, especially very early 'provincial' silver as there were many very small silversmiths and siver of very light weight did not have to be submitted to one of the main Assay Offices for marking. The J.M. in the central 'losenge' would be the makers mark and the numbers 8725 is either a registration number or the silver purity percentage, i.e. 87.25%. It will more likeley be a registration number as a purity number would be much smaller, not stamped in so deep and would also be contained within a losenge. The number 3 on each could be the number of a series of pairs made of which may have been specially commissioned. UK silver is usually always marked with the Assay Office mark, anchor = Birmingham, leopards head = Sheffield, crown = London etc. etc. A date letter in a losenge, different fonts and losenge shapes, were also stamped in, these dates can accurateley be identified to the year if you look in the 'Collins Gem Antique Marks' little pocket book, available from all good stationers and book shops, a little bible if you're into gold, silver, platinum, pewter, English silver plate and ceramics. The marks on gold are the same as those on silver. Any 'silver' and 'gold' metal items marketed without hallmarks and being tested as gold or silver and without a written 'certificate' stating that they have tested as such can legally only be marketed as white or yellow metal in description.

Edit.

Continental silver imported to the uk normally is submitted to an Assay Office who will test its purity and mark it with such, 9.25 being the UK standard, small items are usually marked with the word 'Sterling', this verifies that it also is of the uk standard. French silver usually carries the word 'Argent', which is the French word for silver. Of course, silver and other precious metal objects are produced all the World over and each will or should carry their own Countries marking systems.

Edited August 7, 2012 by powerrabbit

[BC]

Thanks ..Tim...maybe it would have been better to PM you and not put up a post...but heck it's a nice box and nice shiny contents and well Banchory is local to me in Drumoak only being 5 miles further Eastt........but I'm only a "white settler" in Drumoak....I have only been in the village for 25 years so they are just about accepting me as they call me..."Tractor Bill" ;D

[powerrabbit]

I would not expect you to PM me on this subject Bill as I would not expect you to even assume I have any knowledge on these sort of things. but posting such things up opens descussion and replies can, hopefully, increase other interested persons knowledge and learning.

[BC]

Tim you have hit the nail on the head...I assume you have seen my hammer collection ... ;D

[BC]

Another receptacle a Vest Pocket Cup...was kinda silver but now a bit tarnished. Think this was handed down from my mums folks.

[powerrabbit]

Silver plated hunters collapsable toddy beaker Bill. Would be carried out in the hunters jacket pocket at the hunt meet for the traditional 'styrrup' cup drink before the off with the hounds. Nice item.

[BC]

I have never actually tried it to see if it hold liquid in Tim.

[powerrabbit]

It should do, go-on Bill, I know you're just dying to try it out. I/6th of a Gill or one 'tot' is what it should hold by the look of its size.

[BC]

It too like the rules have been laid past Tim but I will try and remember to try it out at the weekend.

[Blue man]

Is there any chance considering that they are from 1925 that the 8725 is the date they were made as in the 8th of July 1925 (8/7/25) or is it just a complete coincidence

[BC]

I had not really though of that Blue man but a feasible suggestion. I haven't really been able to find out much about them yet ...mind you I have only shown them to a coupe of folk other than asking on here.

Edited August 10, 2012 by BC

[BC]

Yesterday I was over at Sinclair's the jewellers in Inverurie to collect and pay for my latest Border Fine Arts figurine and I took my two silver quaichs along to see if Ian Sinclair the proprietor could shed any light on them. Very nice he said looks like silver to me despite no hallmark but I'll check with the goldsmith. Off he went and back he came confirming (although not tested) the goldsmith confirmed they were silver. In addition he said he thought it would have been made by a smaller local silversmith hence no hallmark. Ian proceeded to check the box inside and out looking for a name but nothing. He did say he thought there were two little silver spoons missing and the set would probably have been intended for use as a condiments set. Sure enough looking closer inside the box there are"holders" for the two spoons.....now where on earth am going to find spoons to may the boxed set complete ... ;D ...be like trying to find a needle in a haystack....but I never say never...there is always a possibility.

But I have just remembered there is a goldsmith / silversmith in Drumoak who I need to call visit and see if I can find out more about this set.

http://www.davidmilne-goldsmith.com/index.htm

[powerrabbit]

What you want Bill is a pair of matching silver 'mustard spoons', you'll probably be able to find a pair at your local silversmith/goldsmiths or jewelers shops, if not go along to a local antiques fair when there's one on in your area, you usually see numerous mustard spoons at these fairs and pretty cheap.

[BC]

Thanks Tim I never thought of attending one of those before but I might now. There are ones held at the Hilton Treetops in Aberdeen where this years and next years Model Farm and Construction show is being held. I going to give the local goldsmith a shout first though. Do you happen to have any of these Tim and any photos so I know what I'm looking for...other wise I suspect I need to take the case along and see what fits in the box. It would be nice to complete the set even though not the original ones.

[powerrabbit]

These spoons come in a variety of sizes and styles, some are very plain, others quite ornate and decorated with the terminal of the handle having designs on them and the bowls taking the form of a scallop 'shell' and such like 'embossing' designs. I would say that if you took the quaishes with you when on the hunt for a pair of spoons then you could better match them to near enough the design on the quaishes, this would also help you to find spoons of the right size proprtionate to the quaishes as well. Here are 2 types of spoon that I have, the little one is not silver, just silver plate and would have been with a mustard pot from a condament set, a mustard pot with a hinged lid and glass liner. The larger one would be of the type you would be looking for. I've just for interest taken a close-up of the hallmarks on this one, the initials of W.S. are the maker (W. Sobey), next is the Kings head, William 4th, and the Monarchs head shows that the Duty on the item had been paid. Next is the Lion 'Passant', denoting English silver. (Which is always 9.25 purity). The next mark is the Assay Office mark, in this instance it is Exeter (believed to have started around 1570 and the office closed in 1882). The last mark is the date letter, which is a q (Q) which denotes the year off Assay as 1832.

[BC]

Thanks for that Tim much appreciated.