The Ford 5000 Select-0-speed

[Mike R]

When I first joined the forum I raised the point of the Ford 5000 with a select-0- speed gearbox which was available on a local farm in kent which I had used in the 1970s No Names but I was told no that was wrong it was only available on the David Brown tractors

Well after looking and researching this I now have the proof I was right Today I have bought a copy of Septembers Classic tractor Magazine and on page 50 it tells you all about the ford force tractors and worth a read too.

[nashmach]

Mainly available on the Pre Force 5000's as by the time the Force's came out they were noted for being unreliable.

[Mike R]

There is still one working on that farm where i used to work

[ploughmaster]

When I first joined the forum I raised the point of the Ford 5000 with a select-0- speed gearbox which was available on a local farm in kent which I had used in the 1970s No Names but I was told no that was wrong it was only available on the David Brown tractors

I think somebody must have got confused between the Ford 'Select-o-Speed' (or 'Jerk-a-matic' as many called it!) and the David Brown 'Selectamatic', which was something completely different (hydraulics, not gearbox!!):

[NIGEL FORD]

Mainly available on the Pre Force 5000's as by the time the Force's came out they were noted for being unreliable.

only because farmers of that era weren't keen on regular servicing...my father used to change to a new tractor rather than change the engine oil....almost.... , and he was a struggling tenant farmer/contractor at the time. When I first started servicing the tractors in my early teens the diesel fuel filter (paper element one) on our New Performance Super Dexta was 3 inches deep in water with the diesel on top!!: all condensation from leaving the tank, and the cans they used to fill them, empty last thing in the evening. But then no one had advised them any different, I don't think the handbook even warned of that....if they ever read them! Though I do remember images of having ones storage tank tipped back, which he did.

 As for people referring to Selecto-O-Speed as Selectamatic... well I guess there always will be chinese whispers and folk that don't know what they're talking about.  

[powerrabbit]

Very dangerous gearbox, or I should say system, as there was no indication of which gear you were in, just a series of knotches on the quadrant and it was oh so easy to skip a lot of gears and it would automatically select whatever gear you had the lever positioned to on the quadrant. Changing up was not too much of a problem as the tractor would jump and off it would go. Changing down was the problem, if you were in a high gear travelling downhill in a steepish field and if you missed a few gears between say 8th and 3rd, the rear wheels would start turning in the opposite direction and the tractor would be off, a very difficult situation to recover from. Changing up was very jumpy with more often than not, the front wheels in the air, we used to call this system 'kangaroo-omatic'.

A lot of people don't seem to like the David Brown system of Hydra-Shift but this is a far better system with gradual change and is a lot safer as there is more control and better marking of the lever positions and when you bring the tractor to a stop it will always start off again in first gear regardless of which gear is selected and take itself up to the gear that the handle is selected to one at a time.

[NIGEL FORD]

had the numbers in the window faded on the S-O-S then?

I had a 1212 buckraking silage once and it was so annoying because you had to go along way from the lump before reversing into it as there was no momentum until it changed up a couple of gears to be able to fill the buckrake and then it crawled away from the lump again...etc. Our contractor had them on the silage trailers and they said they never seemed to have the right gear as the ratios were too far apart.

[MJB1]

never driven a select o speed although i did come close one day but the david brown hydra-shift was a great gearbox & if used right , would give no problems , biggest problem was the cable would stretch , but was sorted when a bar linkage was fitted on the 94 series. not the greatest tractor for loader work though

from what other operators have told me about the s-o-s was to anticipate the changes not just sit & wait for them to come , then when changing up quickly flick past the gear you need then back into the gear you want , sounds strange to me but thats ford for you,  glad i didn't get the drive on that 5000 that day !

[RichardJW1]

Mainly available on the Pre Force 5000's as by the time the Force's came out they were noted for being unreliable.

this is a pre-force 5000 with selectospeed

[ploughmaster]

 As for people referring to Selecto-O-Speed as Selectamatic... well I guess there always will be chinese whispers and folk that don't know what they're talking about.  

I've lost count of the number of times I have come across people who get the two names confused (usually referring to a Ford 'Selectamatic'  ). 

Both the Ford and david Brown clutchless gear systems were years ahead of their time, but neither was well enough designed to work as well as they should have.  The widespread acceptance of clutchless gear systems for tractors was set back years as a result (In my own bigotted opinion anyway!!!! )

[Eurodeere]

Select-o-speed was available on post '68 force models but I don't think many/any were sold in the UK due to it's poor reputation, more user error than design fault. Deere brought out the 8 speed powershift in the US and that was developed into the 1990's with the 55 series tractors and drivers liked it. The Hydrashift always seemed sluggish but then it did not jerk. I think if Ford had developed the select-o-speed a little more before releasing it onto the market it could have been a great success.

[RichardJW1]

Select-o-speed was available on post '68 force models but I don't think many/any were sold in the UK

they sold them in U.K.......the photos I have just posted above ae from one I saw on Saturday

[nashmach]

they sold them in U.K.......the photos I have just posted above ae from one I saw on Saturday

But the one you have photographed is a Pre Force Richard

[RichardJW1]

But the one you have photographed is a Pre Force Richard

ahh ok.......well, then in that case I can say that during my days at a dealership (early '90s) the guys used to convert selectospeed 3000s (Force series) to 8 speed........then also there was a write-up in an old Classic Tractor of a guy in Devon who collected them

[nick a]

Select-o-speed was available on post '68 force models but I don't think many/any were sold in the UK due to it's poor reputation, more user error than design fault. Deere brought out the 8 speed powershift in the US and that was developed into the 1990's with the 55 series tractors and drivers liked it. The Hydrashift always seemed sluggish but then it did not jerk. I think if Ford had developed the select-o-speed a little more before releasing it onto the market it could have been a great success.

i have seen ford force 5000 with fieco cabs having s-o-s boxes , Blenhiem estates oxon use to run them, one of them even had m&w (opico) turbo. they also ran turbo standard 5000 tractors.

[NIGEL FORD]

as S-O-S was a Major step forward,I guess, so many drivers abused it possibly testing it to destruction and without the proper servicing the change was jerky,though mainly when 2 or 3 clutch packs all changed at once in particular gear changes not helped by the fact that foot throttles were'nt standard then,(in fact not even available until around 1970 I think) so drivers were not inclined to throttle back to take the ****** out and extend the life of the clutch packs etc. We had a contractors Pre-Force S-O-S 5000 come in with the Atkinson  lime spreader and although pleased he got up hills not previously traversable we weren't impressed with the divots spun out on permanent pasture where he'd changed up without throttling back..... but then I suppose one could excuse the driver,... as he only had one arm...

[MJB1]

going back to the start of the thread , lets not forget that apart from the select o speed ford had, david brown had devised an autobox for the red implematic tractors before long before hydra-shift was was released . unfortunately  like the select-o speed it didn't sell very well , matter of fact i'm not overly sure it made it to release !

any help on this please will ,bill ?

[powerrabbit]

David Brown developed and built the 'Autodrive' gearbox in 1962 and was built into 4 Implematic 990's. This gearbox was fully automatic with the dial pointer in the 'A' position and with the pointer in either 1, 2, 3 or 4 numbered positions in conjunction with the main gear lever you could select a specific gear in the range. This would have added to the cost to the farmer which would have made the standard 990 which cost around £800 over £1,000 which to the farmer was quite prohibitive cost wise at this time. The system was 'put back in the box' as it were and with modifications and further development was re-introduced as 'Hydra-Shift' in 1972 and was fitted as standard to all David Brown 1212's and later offered as an option on subsequent models. There is a short D.B. produced film on the 'Autodrive', it is on one of the DVD's that are available. Four were produced and it is rumoured that only one survives to this day but no-one knows where it is, or are not telling.

[archbarch]

i can remember a few fords around with select o speed when i was a kid i think they were more common than people remember, unfortunately ive only heard bad things would have loved to driven one for myself.

[MJB1]

David Brown developed and built the 'Autodrive' gearbox in 1962 and was built into 4 Implematic 990's. This gearbox was fully automatic with the dial pointer in the 'A' position and with the pointer in either 1, 2, 3 or 4 numbered positions in conjunction with the main gear lever you could select a specific gear in the range.  There is a short D.B. produced film on the 'Autodrive', it is on one of the DVD's that are available. Four were produced and it is rumoured that only one survives to this day but no-one knows where it is, or are not telling.

knew i could count on you i've seen the archive & was very interesting

knew i wasn't going daft  :D

[Light Land]

I drove a 5000 with select-0-speed with a bale trailer for a few days one summer a year or two back.

Jolly tit of system I thought.I recall one load I got off to open a gate and the bloody thing leapt forward under it's own steam almost runing me over in the prosess,I can't of had it in nutral like i thought I had. \

[NIGEL FORD]

thinking a bit more about it, something in the old grey-matter thinks that there is a connection with one of the chief S-O-S designers(?) going to Deere and designing the Powershift? Anyone recall this?

[nashmach]

thinking a bit more about it, something in the old grey-matter thinks that there is a connection with one of the chief S-O-S designers(?) going to Deere and designing the Powershift? Anyone recall this?

That is correct Nigel

[britainswomble]

thinking a bit more about it, something in the old grey-matter thinks that there is a connection with one of the chief S-O-S designers(?) going to Deere and designing the Powershift? Anyone recall this?

That probably happened as Fords were such pig headed sods and if marketing said that's what the farmers want, then that's what they sold. No doubt the person that designed the SOS gearbox had all the ideas to make it what the farmers really wanted, but as usual Ford's never listened, so he went to work for JD.

  I would imagine the SOS box worked well in the U.S. where they spend a lot of time in very large fields, but the UK market calls for much tougher machinery than many world markets require, as we  found out over the years.

    The actual gearbox of the SOS was virtually indestructible, the fault was with the control system. Had it been developed further before it acquired a crap reputation in this country; the story could have been very different. The box on the 30 series Fords (TW 86-87-8830) was a standard four pack epicyclic gearbox, similar in many ways to the old SOS box. What made it better was the electronic control system and better hydraulic control.

    Finally Fords other big disaster was the synchro boxes they bought out on the "10" series in the early eighties. UK farmers wanted a snchro box to compete with JD's superb gearboxes. They proudly announced their new offering, the details of which we were told would make it a market leader. What did the silly ar*es do. They bring out a column gearchange that was a total embarrassment. Our sales staff couldn't believe their eyes. It was horrendous to use unless someone taught you the easy tecnique of changing from 6th to 7th gear. The reverse gear was on another lever lower down the column, and was absolutely useless for loader work as traditionally 5th or 6th gear was used for going forward on the old constant mesh box, with reverse directly opposite which was great. "Shuttle" loader work on the wonderful synchro box could only use 4th gear and reverse (4th) meaning that the forward speed was too slow. The option being changing gears on two gear levers, using 4th in reverse and "high" 2nd forwards.

    The first demo 6610 I had, I took to a ploughing match. Prospective customers said it was crap and wanted to know what on earth Fords were thinking of when they designed it, and I slunk off home at the end of the day with Ford's wonderful tractor obstinately stuck in gear. Piece of sh*t.

    The only good thing about it was that I helped sell quite a few to selected farmers who we knew would benefit from the synchro box. Ford's eventually got the message and did away with the "Rubic's Cube" gearlevers and brought out the 'H' pattern change in place of it. Still no good for loader work. Just as well we still had the option of the constant mesh box. (Also known as the "Crash box" by muppets who couldn't double de-clutch)

    I much preferred the old constant mesh gearbox. Very easy to use, great for loader work, easy to change on the move, very strong and easy to work on if repairs were needed. 

[MJB1]

Now this may sound strange Will but i used to drive a 6610 with a 'rubics' & a 7610 with an H box & i found the rubics easier to use , once you mastered where the actual gears were hiding ! but then i drove the 66 more than the 76.

The problem with the H box i found was the S shaped lever , i know it was supposed to be designed to fit the dash & drivers knees , but apart from the forward & back movement , it was getting enough forward & downward momentum & pressure to get to 3rd gear before the tractor lost all forward motion & engine speed & yes the range change / reverse was  truly awfull, it felt like being punished to have to do the buckraking with those tractors  thank the lord for the sanderson 622 !

things obviously had to change when the series 2 came out & the revised cab ,flat floor & floor mounted gears on the right were a welcome change, but even then some of the gears arangements were different , again a 6610 & 7610 spring to mind, the 66 the farm bought had a totaly different gear pattern to the 76 which made things interesting if you happened to get used to one then get into the other . but overall ford managed to find their feet & get back the sales the original 10 series lost them , especially when the long awaited 78 was released , but even then i still maintain trying to change gear on them was like stiring a bucket of bricks with a broom handle 

The only thing i'd really change on these tractors of which a friend of mine actually did with his 7710 was to wire up the dual power to a toggle switch clamped to the main gear stick, soooooooo much easier to use