lime

[neilw]

Do you spread lime post plough, or on top of crop? if the latter, what time of yr do you apply it, and with what knd of spreader (I.E will a fertliser spinner or dung spreader do it??)

[masseyjack590]

when we do its usually on top of ploughing or discing done by by a contractor with a biq A trike

[TM190]

it was spread around me last week there, just straight on top of a fair crop of grass 

[roberthenning]

Post plough, about 2tonne to the acre per year until its at the required ph level on ground thats been bought or owned. On con-acre we usually g-lime it with the fert spreader for an instant hit and not worrying to bring the ph up that much if we dont get to take it the next year

[AndyB]

The best time to apply it is on a stubble (if a cereal is at that point in the rotation).  This is helpful to the operator in having old tram-lines.  So the busiest time for lime application is now onwards. Obviously you can put it on a cultivated field but wheelings are the issue.  As lime is applied at a highish rate there is a lot of trafficing on the field.  Big A's or Terragators are fine for this job as has been said.  Lime is not to my knowledge applied to an established crop - one reason being that you can't successfully spread lime to 24m.

Some muck spreaders can spread lime but obviously need a door at the back to regulate the flow - it could be argued that it is a tad innaccurate!  The most common bit of kit would be a trailed spreader such as a Bredal (KRM).  Mounted spreaders would not be suitable.

[Deere-est]

As above, the farm I worked on had lime and fibre phos spread on stubble and incorporated with discs. A KRM Bredal was used, land driven at 12m spreading width.

[masseyjack590]

i think the biq A that did ours a few years ago was spreading to 18m

[powerrabbit]

Lime can be applied in several ways. The most popular is post ploughing for new crops, best done in the last stages of cultivation, the last pass prior to drilling or seeding and then incorporated within the top two inches of the seedbed with drag harrows and then dragged again to cover the seed, roll in and that's it. The next most popular way is to spread direct onto the crop, arable when the seedlings are, in the case of grain crops, just ptoducing the first stem node. Ground limestone is the most common and the rate of application will depend on the acidity of the soil, the higher the acidity the heavier the application, for very acidic soil a rate of 10T per acre (in old money). You can get a soil testing lit or get your seed merchant rep to come and do it, most will do this for free, and use a PH chart to determine the acidity of the soil, a white powder (foget what it is now) mixed with distilled water and some soil samples from different parts of the field put in a test tube, shaken to mix and then left upright to settle. the soil drops to the bottom and the liquid comes to the top. The liquid will be from orange through to green depwnding on the PH of the soil, orange being very acid, green being alkali, which is what you want to see. The colour will be compared to the colours on the chart which indicates the PH value and the rate of application is calculated from that. Lime in powder form or ground limestone can be spread with a fertaliser spreader providing that you have the agitator fitted in the bottom otherwise it won't go through, just go solid. Nowadays you can get a prilled lime which is like granulated fertaliser and comes in the same sort of big bags, in this form you only need to apply half the volume per acre of that of powdered lime. Your seed merchant will supply the lime and if you have powdered lime they will also supply their own contracted spreaders, the ones that used to do ours was Lime Distributors, 10T bulker lorries with the lime, a chap with an MF188 towing the lorry ramps with the ground-drive spreader on top for the lorry to back onto or sometimes there would be a backactor arm with a clamshell bucket on it for self loading on the front of the spreader and the lorry would just tip the lime in a heap in the field.

[Deere-est]

Lime can be applied in several ways. The most popular is post ploughing for new crops, best done in the last stages of cultivation, the last pass prior to drilling or seeding and then incorporated within the top two inches of the seedbed with drag harrows and then dragged again to cover the seed, roll in and that's it. The next most popular way is to spread direct onto the crop, arable when the seedlings are, in the case of grain crops, just ptoducing the first stem node. Ground limestone is the most common and the rate of application will depend on the acidity of the soil, the higher the acidity the heavier the application, for very acidic soil a rate of 10T per acre (in old money). You can get a soil testing lit or get your seed merchant rep to come and do it, most will do this for free, and use a PH chart to determine the acidity of the soil, a white powder (foget what it is now) mixed with distilled water and some soil samples from different parts of the field put in a test tube, shaken to mix and then left upright to settle. the soil drops to the bottom and the liquid comes to the top. The liquid will be from orange through to green depwnding on the PH of the soil, orange being very acid, green being alkali, which is what you want to see. The colour will be compared to the colours on the chart which indicates the PH value and the rate of application is calculated from that. Lime in powder form or ground limestone can be spread with a fertaliser spreader providing that you have the agitator fitted in the bottom otherwise it won't go through, just go solid. Nowadays you can get a prilled lime which is like granulated fertaliser and comes in the same sort of big bags, in this form you only need to apply half the volume per acre of that of powdered lime. Your seed merchant will supply the lime and if you have powdered lime they will also supply their own contracted spreaders, the ones that used to do ours was Lime Distributors, 10T bulker lorries with the lime, a chap with an MF188 towing the lorry ramps with the ground-drive spreader on top for the lorry to back onto or sometimes there would be a backactor arm with a clamshell bucket on it for self loading on the front of the spreader and the lorry would just tip the lime in a heap in the field.

I would argue that due to UK conditions and timeliness 

[AndyB]

I would second that arguement Tris.  Having spread maybe 1000's of tonnes of either lime or Limex I can vouch that the most common method is pre cultivation and certainly pre crop.

[archbarch]

in the Fens alot of farmers/growers only treat certain parts of a field which need the lime, dont see many Big A machines on 'black land' probably due to the weight factor   on 'black land' you can be upto your axles without warning.

[powerrabbit]

If you do like some 'numpty' farmers and lime before the plough the lime will never work if you bury it.

The reason you also never lime directly on ploughed ground is because when traversing ploughed furrows you'd never stay in the tractor seat.

The lime only has to be incorporated into the first 2 inches of soil is so that the roots of the seedlings can take it up and as rain pushes it deeper the roots still take it up as they develop and go deeper into the soil. That's the basics of it.

[jakescot]

If you do like some 'numpty' farmers and lime before the plough the lime will never work if you bury it.

The reason you also never lime directly on ploughed ground is because when traversing ploughed furrows you'd never stay in the tractor seat.

The lime only has to be incorporated into the first 2 inches of soil is so that the roots of the seedlings can take it up and as rain pushes it deeper the roots still take it up as they develop and go deeper into the soil. That's the basics of it.

this is  pretty much how I understand it too  PR........we usually do apply it after ploughing but we tend not to plough so deep here ..........too many stones  and the guys who do it all have big sprung front axle tractors with cab suspension,,they cant always  go that fast either due to the slopes.

I know a big batch of land round here changed hands oh , some 25 yrs ago,........guy was a good farmer so did some ditching,draining,fencing all prior to the much needed reseed.he didn`t however get the fields tested for lime until he had actually started ploughing.much to his disbelief, the testing showed no lime required which for us round here with all our rain is very unusual. the samples were re tested and this showed to be indeed the case.

It was eventually discovered the lime had been applied and ploughed down some 15 years previously!!!!!!!!.....

however, the seedsmen are recommending  to us on our grasslands that we should apply the lime this year to give it time to start to work before next years crop.this is what I`ll do once I can afford to start a proper re seeding program.

[powerrabbit]

Back in the late 1980's down these parts 'Cornish Calcified Seaweed' was all the rage, basically it was the dredgings from the likes of the Fal estuary and and just off-shore around Falmouth, worm casts and small shells in one cwt plastic bags. It was said to 'sweeten the pasture' and have a slow release effect which contained trace elements such as salts and calcium. Some farmers used to swear by it and on recommendation from a farming relation we dressed our pastures with it, by means of the old Twose fert spinner, but it was the biggest con of the time and produced no effective results whatsoever, I think it was all psycological and another ploy to make money for those who supplied it as it was only taken further out to sea and dumped previously but this ploy did not seem to last very long, I think untill farmers realised that it was useless and never bought it again. I seem to remember that it's 'trade' name was Mer-Min.

[AndyB]

I think this subject demonstrates how diverse farming in this country and indeed the rest of the world.  It is interesting seeing differing opinions on this subject.  I will put my last 2 peneth in (hopefully not a cat in and all that....). 

The whole idea behind pH balancing in my understanding is for the ability of a crop to take up nutrients.  Persay, lime is not 'taken-up' it is merely a tool in ensuring the availability of other nutrients, especialy micro or trace elements.

When soil sampling I always disguard the top 3 inches of soil because this can be squewed by other nutrients, so you base a pH reading on the 3+ inch soil profile.

Lime (like Sulphur) takes a long time to work, so really applying it now for example might not have any effect for some time.

[archbarch]

  i would say it depends on the type of crop being grown alot of lime gets put on pre- plough in the autumn for Sugar Beet again depending on soil types. Application of fertilisers can alter soil ph temporarily, after a couple of weeks it will return to its normal level.

Powerrabbit i was wandering what happened to Cornish calcified seaweed the other day, my old boss said it was a con even though he never used it. Another con is putting wetting agents in the spraytank as nearly all chemicals have their own wetting agent.