Simon

I was amazed to find you're brighter than you look too Bazza!

Wiking too expensive and too delicate, Siku too expensive and will have that silly front hitch, RC2 for me....

It's funny isn't it, we all hate them now, me as much as anyone, but I remember lusting after a Siku tractor with a front hitch as a kid because it was such a great thing to play with... the slip on plastic Britains one was ok but not as good as the Siku one... They are still toys after all I suppose.... \

Personally I prefer them coming from New Holland but that's just me...

Precisely Tris, and that's no-ones fault but our own. There is no good reason for us needing perfectly shaped produce 12 months of the year other than 'we want it'.... We all need to change our lifestyles to more accurately reflect what is available locally. Marky is probably the man to tell us what we should be eating and when with regards fruit and veg. THAT's real fair trade, creating an economy which can support itself in the basics and export the surplus to make some profit, and from that importing luxuries which are sold at a premium, hence creating the same economy in other countrues. It is also, by another name, capitalism..... fair trade doesn't have problems because we don't do it right, it's because many of the countries we try to fair trade with have deep rooted problems with corruption and we take it as our responsibility to put this right by implementing our notions of what constitutes fair trade on them. You can't mess with other cultures.... look at it in its most basic form... a section of the muslim community don't like the way we do things, we didn't like it when the flew planes at us and blew us up. The west have a mistrust of muslims, we flew planes at them, it's for natural resources but ultimately it comes down to religious suspicion, who 'started it' is more or less irrelevant. We wouldn't like it if muslims came to our country and told us we had to slaughter our livestock in what we see as an inhumane way, same as they didn't like it when we went on the Crusades... The west needs to accept that the whole world isn't like us, some Africans still like eating each other, some countries think cows should be worshipped, not turned into burgers, we ARE all different, there is no such thing as an integrated multicultural society, there is a world, which is still big, full of people who believe different things and do things in different ways. I'm by no means a swampy, I still think the empire was a good thing, but you can't change cultures. We don't really like the idea of Sharia law coming into force in Britain, so why should we believe that other countries and cultures want us to implement our cultures and ways of doing things on them.... It reminds me of kids, always 'watching' what the other has and some interefering parent sticking their oar in and 'splitting things fairly'... leave them to it, the other kid probably didn't really want what the other had anyway, they were just bickering because they were bored... The world is not full of children, we are grown ups who can make our own decisions, in the same way as the labour government treat us all as too stupid to think for ourselves, we treat the rest of the world the same way, it's no wonder everyone gets cheesed off with the west.... Jo, my lack of interest in 'the real Al' is an accurate reflection of my endemic lack of interest in other people! My interest in others stops at what affects me, so I'm interested in whether the flavour of the underwear worn by the trampy looking bloke in front of me in the queue is attracting all these flies, right through to whether Dwight D. Ewing Jnr the third, from the board of Kraft foods is thinking he wants to make a bigger bonus to buy himself that SRT10 for Christmas so decides to offload the Cadbury's Bournville site for development, leaving Sid from Brimingham unemployed so my hard earned tax pounds are spent paying for his Sky+ and DFS 4 year interest free 3 piece suite while he sits on his Bum unable to find a job because formerly British but now foreign owned companies have shipped all manufacturing out of this company destroying everyones chances of finding 'just something' to keep the wolf from the door! I like to think I'd make an excellent dictator and wouldn't be the least bit corrupted by power....

There does seem to be plenty of current production kit but 2010 doesn't seem a big year for major tractor releases [with the global recession], which has tied in nicely with our repeated requests for 'classics'... I'm sure if there were new launches they would be released in model form but I don't think there really are any, CNH, none I know of, Deere, revised numbering but nothing major, MF, think they're covered.... \

I see exactly where you are coming from Jo, we differ in that I put my kids first, my country second and if there's anything else for the rest of the world then maybe them next... [not that you don't put your kids first We differ in that I seem genetically incapable of intercontinental compassion on a daily - even occasional - basis... \ ] There are many moral and abstract arguments for and against fair trade, international aid etc etc, and those who devote their lives to it are far more noble than I. However..... Things we should remember though are: 1. The population is expanding at a rate beyond that which the planet can realistically sustain. 2. There is little or no natural selection anymore, we are at the top of the food chain, science allows us to far outlive our alotted time, we can predict natural disasters... [although this information only seems to be acted on in 'the developed world' and that warrants its own debate] we want to be infallible and invicible and all the while wonder why the world is changing? It's adapting to survive, screw us lot! 3. Tsunamis, earthquakes, volcanos, floods, drought, famine, plague... these are all natures way of controlling the population, maintaining the natural and delicate balance of her ecosystem... And yet we feel it our right - or duty - to try to control them... 4. All these things are nasty, but in the words of, I believe, Elton John pretending to be a lion... it's the circle of life... It's a necessary evil, the few sometimes need to suffer for the many. If it's me who is due to cop it because mother nature says so then so be it..... I'm fortunate I live where I do - a temperate climate with a fairly stable social structure so it's unlikely a volcano or famine will get me, I'm more likely to leave the road on a greasy bend but we all live with risk... We're spoilt now, we can turn things on and turn things off whenever we like, we can see starving kids on TV in the comfort of our own home with a bottle of Chilean Merlot in one hand and 'save them' with the other by tapping our credit card details into our laptop. We are bombarded with requests for cash to save polar bears, giant pandas, children, old houses, coastline, parks, dogs, cats, birds, lions, tigers... these things don't need our money - it's the do good-ers who make themselves feel better by devoting their life to lifting money off people through guilt inducing images and emotional instrumental music who need the money, to fund their travel and TV advertising - no, the polar bears just want us to p*ss off, the cats just want to be left alone to breed in peace and quiet, the coastline will live or die by mother natures grand plan... I worry for my kids' future, but not in a global catastrophe way, there is no controlling that... I worry that the 'civilisation' we have spent so long building will continue to decline and erode to nothing, that they won't be able to experience the things our greatest engineers and scientists have spent their lives developing, because as a country we collapse and end up like Africa but without the clement weather... Going back to the banning thing, the fact that you recognise that the manner in which the government banned hunting was inappropriate is good enough for me, I respect your opinion on hunting, we are all entitled to our own views. I don't hunt, I used to when I was a child, but all the same I wouldn't force my opinion on anyone. Infact, I don't recall - in all the debates I've had about hunting -, the pro-hunting lobby ever forcing the good things about hunting down the anti's necks, only ever that the ban was unjust. Granted you can have your opinions but it doesn't actually or directly affect anyone so did the government feel it necessary to become involved with something they know little [or nothing] about? In just the same vein as the hunting ban and the statement that you hate it, I have my own two hates. In fact, I bet my feelings far exceed the strength of feeling you have for hunting, and I bet I could give more valid reasons for banning my 2 hates than you could hunting... However, I can avoid these things [not as easily as an anti can avoid hunting but as they offend me I make the effort] and so I don't jump up and down and lobby government... Can you guess what they are? FOOTBALL! 1. Causes unecessary social tension and violence 2. Financially the rewards are grossly disproportionate to the contribution of everyone involved 3. It sets a bad example to potential plumbers, bricklayers, productionline workers, kids think that they can all have Bentleys and air head page 3 model girlfriends and this prevents them from following a proper career path 4. More people have been killed or injured as a result of football than anything else after religion [war gets lumped into religion because that's inevitably what they come down to] 5. Football costs the country millions in lost work time, either through sickies to watch matches, organised watching of big matches at work or sickies as a result of hangovers or thrashings after matches... I can go on but I'll upset the football fans... And obviously, RELIGION, for broadly similar reasons as above, more people have died, and continue to die, as a result of religion. I firmly believe that the world would genuinely be a better place if religion had never been invented [or if you're religious, if God, or for those who don't follow our God and therefore don't have the right to capitalisation, gods, didn't exist] and we would all be far more tolerant and helpful and everything, right down to the single global economy, would be flourishing.... that's one for an alternate dimension though.... it's getting late, I think I need a sleep.... A bit OT but rant complete.... Where were we? Fair trade, yes, a modern myth in this generation where the developed world feels the need to second guess and 'save' everything.... it's unsustainable, something will have to give or it's going to be standing room only on this planet.... unfortunately horrid things happen to some people, it's nature. The fact that satellite TV has been invented and we can now all see it on 42inches of widescreen doesn't mean we necessarily need to change it, maybe just be compassionate about it and appreciate how lucky we are.... 2 L's in appalling...!

Surely we can't be the only ones either? \ Maybe we should stop working our nuts off to pay our taxes now and take up politics instead.... got two chances I suppose!!!

Point taken Jo, but if people could see beyond their own petty grievances and face up to their wider responsibilities on their doorstep then we wouldn't get so frustrated by it. Hunting ban? Prejudiced and unnecessary and no benefit to anyone. Ban on capital punishment? A weak government using pointless legislation to attempt to fool us into believing they were doing something about a real problem which they didn't have the balls to really tackle. The list goes on.... A bunch of whinging Brummies who struggled to motivate themselves to put in more than 60% effort into a day's work and hence, in many eyes, are the architects of their own misfortune, will never tug at the heart stings like a wilderness awash with African orphans swarmed in flies and suffering from kwashiorkor.... but unless we put our workforce first, no matter how hard it may be to reconcile their neediness over that of others, then there will be no way for us to give aid anyway.... We've got to get our own shop in order before we go sorting out everyone else's..... go back a few decades and our shop was good, but 12 years of socialist misrule has set us back further than I think we realise.... I think many people are burying their head in the sand or labouring under an innocent misapprehension that we are a superpower... we're just not anymore, not by a long chalk... The government should stop caving in under their simpering desire to please Europe - or, more likely, to secure highly paid careers for their own personal gain following their miserable domestic political careers - and grow some sprouts and put the UK first. We produce enough in this country to provide our services with vehicles, our health service with beds and medical equipment, our populace with food, even satisfy our insatiable desire for electronic gizmos and widgets.... we should have a booming economy.... So why aren't we...?

Very valid points... I was just looking at all the new release topics thinking 'how the F*&^ am I going to afford everything I want!!' I won't bother converting anything for a while either I think, looks like everything I want is on its way... \

I concur, I hate the Siku front hitch, the Britains 7000 has streaked ahead of the Siku bigun in my humble...

I've gotta say, that Massey does look good, I'll reserve final judgement until I see it in the flesh, but credit where credit's due, looks mustard Hopefully 2010 can be a turning point for RC2...

I agree completely Al, the biggest problem in this country is the lack of tangible output, we've become an economy built entirely on service industries. Our utility companies are foreign owned, our manufacturing companies are foreign owned, our food companies are foreign owned. And this isn't nationalistic paranoia. There are no incentives to own or produce anything here. I heard news today that Land Rover production may be shipped to India - the native country of the new owners - once the 2012 factory emmissions laws come into force. How can we allow this to happen?! Because we will... Only in the UK can we allow some half wit faceless European beurocrat to wipe out thousands of jobs and export income through a stroke of his immaculate Mont Blanc fountain pen in his multi million pound office on a different continent..... I was a guest of Land Rover at Gaydon recently and I am baffled as to why the country isn't supporting Land Rover wholeheartedly. They have a fantastic range of vehicles now, there is not a pup in the range and every one is best in class by a country mile. They export 75% of their production, their factories are carbon neutral [admittedly via offsetting principally] and, by the same method, even their vehicles are carbon neutral up to 45'000 miles. And yet the government imposes ridiculous levels of road tax on them, tax fuel so heavily that few can afford to run them while the mass media and general public slander them as 'gas guzzling chelsea tractors'.... What they should be doing is offering favourable business rates to JLR and perhaps lower VAT on sale prices to encourage people to 'buy British' and support the thousands of people who work there and the massive contribution JLR makes to the UK economy. Land Rover are a shining example of what can be achieved in this country if we put our minds to it, and yet the government and average Joe [no offence to anyone who either classes themself as average or is called Joe!] seem incapable of grasping this fact. I will unlikely buy another BMW when it comes to change, I will buy something from the JLR stable, whether that be a Jag car or a Land Rover. We need to vote with our feet and make these things happen. We must surely all have noticed how the vocal minority [granted, with nothing to do] can shout loudly and get what they want done [see hunting ban, smoking ban, ban on smacking, various gov't quangos]...? There must be a way that the rest of us who fund these morons can actually force a culture shift for the good of the country? Support local manufacturing, encourage friends and family to adapt their tastes to suit British produced goods & food? We need fair trade, but as far as I can see we need to force a bit of fair trade on our own economy before we worry about the other side of the world, or it won't be far into the near future before our economy is totally outsripped by these 'thirld world' countries that the bleeding heart liberals are so desperately trying to drag up to our own half cocked standards... \ And Cadbury's, my god, talk about short termist greed... the shareholders should be hanging their heads in shame, and Peter Mandelson's home address should be given to all those workers whom he shafted by failing to gain a guarantee on jobs before he allowed the takeover to go through.... Who wants to start taking bets on how long it will be before it goes the same way as Terry's of York...? And the craziest thing?! Kraft are in financially worse shape than Cadbury's. They've borrowed millions from a BRITISH BANK [let's not forget we've just bailed most of them out] to buy one of our best known brands... So this is what will happen... Kraft will quietly scale back production in Birmingham [etc] before closing it for good, selling off the Bournville site [ripe for redevelopment, that will pay for the purchase of the company] and they've got one of the world's best known brands for nothing, mass producing carbon copies of other Kraft products in different wrapping on the same line somewhere else, and it won't be the UK... When will we learn... when we're all living in transit camps accepting aid from China

SEX ME UP! Finally!! A decent smaller NH... bye bye Ertl.... \

Fantastic! Will we see them by Spalding in April Atte?

I think right now I could even be persuaded to buy into religion After seeing the list of new releases across all manufacturers, I think anything's possible!!

I did sort of feel like America cornered in the playground!

Thanks Sue!!!! I'm not a right wing fat cat capitalist! Honestly!! \

Of course, none even considered taken anyway.... and I agree with you completely, just thought I'd better steer it back to the original question after I so deftly confused the issue earlier on with talk of microwaves and bananas.... :laugh: It's a fascinating topic though.... it can all be brought back to Britains in a round about sort of way.... would we really pay 60 quid for a Britains tractor of the same standard as it is now, just to have it manufactured in the UK, that which is being used as the benchmark for a 'civilised society'...? I honestly doubt it, I certainly wouldn't... maybe UH / Wiking quality I'd consider it but I surely wouldn't buy enough [nor I imagine would anyone else] to make the business of making them here viable or profitable.... \ So, what we deem as the acceptable standard of living would create something of a paradox.... if everyone had our standard of living, everyone would need to be able to acquire the sort of 'luxury goods' we aspire to, in our case toy tractors... [just step back a minute and read that again and see how mildly ridiculous these topics sound together... ] and they would need to be available at an easily attainable price, however that price is not compatible with manufacturing them at a viable cost associated with labour rates in our 'civilised society', so the retail prices skyrocket exponentially, creating an uber capitalist state where there is the same spread of wealth, just with numbers which are so much higher, and ultimately, everyone is in the same situation as they are now.... I'm going for a lie down.... \

There should be a complaints procedure in place with BG Mark which you should be able to find on their website, the next step is the ombudsman... http://www.energy-ombudsman.org.uk/ Before you go through the BG complaints procedure it's worth speaking to them to get their advice... I went into something similar with BT via Otelo which is the Office of the Telecommunications Ombudsman... very helpful if a little slow once it gets underway.... \

We've ended up on divergent paths now I think Marky, a farmer in the bush - and I perhaps used that example unwisely previously - is far removed from a factory in the far east knocking out toy tractors, which is what the thread was initially debating. So while I wholeheartedly agree that we should pay a fair price to the producers of everything from bananas in Africa to wheat in the Fens, mass production of 'luxury items' is a different kettle of exotic fruit.... These items are produced in the way which fits with the standard to which the culture in question has developed thus far and so 'fair trade' and 'civilisation' are very subjective and it should be remembered that we were in their position not so very long ago..... and look where we got to all by ourselves... ish...

Brian doesn't have a website but if you phone him he will send you a catalogue, PM'd the number

I personally can't be overly ar*ed with this whole fair trade thing.... we're applying western standards of living to cultures which either haven't developed in the way we have or don't want to, typical of the west, imposing our way of thinking on everyone else.... We can all be high and mighty about fair trade but what about the folk who work in these 'sweat shops' [they aren't nice by our standards but they proliferate as they do because they are acceptable in those countries] who end up unable to feed their families because their employers now can't compete because of the boom in fair trade and falling demand for 'sweat shop' goods....? Sure, it would be nice to see a bush farmer in Africa with a microwave and a crew cab pickup to drive his family round in and fresh milk in the fridge and ready meals and designer clothes and plasma screens and holidays and health insurance and.... and.... but that's ridiculous.... Unfortunately, despite what the left leaning do-gooders will tell us, and Google maps and TV and sat nav and jet transport make us think, the world IS STILL a big place and there are many different cultures and many different standards of living.... What's to say that the way we live is right? I know we know it's better, more comfortable, safer, healthier, but look how quickly it can crumble when a few bankers do their sums wrong.... I'm capitalist through and through, I love it, but I don't believe that the whole world can be, there has to be a hierarchy, the trick to maintaining the balance is making sure everyone is comfortable [ish] with their lot. We have plenty of fair trade issues we should deal with at home in my opinion, not least the supermarkets and almost complete lack of manufacturing in this country. We're reliant on other countries, and cultures, to sate our desire for electrical crap and iron on labels on mediochre clothes.... even food with our newly discovered 'sophisticated tastes'.... Fair trade, so far as I can see, is a nice idea but when it's looked back on by future generations, could just as likely be seen as totally unworkable as an unmitigated success...? Who can tell..? I'm reserving judgement for now

You've still got it Thomas! This is going to be ace!

I think it comes down to transport width as much as anything, roads are a lot narrower here. And I think we tend towards draft work more than top work so have different traction requirements. Duals don't seem to be as popular here as they do over with you... \ I must admit, I'm surprised that 32nd hasn't taken off over there like it did in Europe, again, I guess it comes down to agriculture style, much of your kit would be huge in 32 so 64 makes more sense from a cost and space perspective maybe? And I've never understood 1/16th! It's nice to see what were traditionally 64 & 16 markets seeing the benefit of 32nd, I've always thought it gives a good balance of being a workable size to fiddle with yet small enough to display well, if the US picks it up that will make it a huge market and hopefully give a decent pull to get all sorts of lovely things produced that have previously been confined to 16th & 64th....