Deere-est Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Whilst researching material for another topic I found this. I'm involved in farming as you all know, drive a lot of kit and can do a lot of hours. I have also spent many hours on the road or asleep in the bunk of my Scania and know the fustration those in the haulage industry have over unlicensed agricultural vehicles, their drivers, roadworthyness and lack of governing laws. Read this, horrifying when you sytep back and think about it!! Nobody in the road freight sector will need reminding of the vast list of rules and regulations that control the trucks we use and how we use them. Pursuing UK drivers and hauliers with missionary zeal are the police Vosa the Traffic Commissioners the Highways Agency (HA) the DVLA the Driver Support Agency Defra and its enforcement officers Speed Camera Partnerships and, of course local authorities with their own sets of regulations. The upside of this red tape is the high standard of engineering and safety met by the trucks running on UK roads. But what most people in the industry are not aware of is the massive weights that agricultural tractor/trailer combinations are running at on A and B-roads. Our experience points to weights of 35 tonnes and more, 25 tonnes of which is pounding down on the single towing eye of a four-axle unit with no air brakes and no minimum tread depth on the trailer tyres, which might well be driven by a 17-year-old on a provisional licence. Arcane knowledge Should you want to find out the legal GVW of an agricultural tractor and trailer combination as set out by transport law today you will have quite a job on your hands. We trawled through the websites of Vosa, Defra, the DVLA and the HA and were unable to extract a clear figure. Finally we tracked down the Vosa technical officer on this matter who explained that the maximum legal train weight for such a combination is 24,390kg. In addition, despite rumblings which might lead to changes in the law, there is currently no annual test for these vehicles - and where there is regulation, it goes pretty much unenforced. For starters, how many farm tractors do you see with an O-licence, even though many habitually operate beyond their 15-mile operating radius? Likewise, how many of them operate under tachograph rules? Not any that we know of. Wherever we looked when investigating this topic we found that the current situation is, to put it mildly, shoddy. To identify a tractor driver who, for instance, sideswipes a car, you might find, if you are lucky, that he has a number plate on the rear of the trailer. However 50 such units may have the same number plate if they are operated by the same farm operation. And if you manage to turn around safely and pursue him you would then have to overtake him - particularly challenging if he is towing a 3m-wide piece of equipment - stop him, identify him, and then make your complaint. A farm worker with a 300hp tractor and trailer can work 100 hours a week and in the process haul more than 2,000 tonnes of produce over 1,500 miles with no legal restrictions. Most hauliers would be hard-pressed to shift 500 tonnes on a 44-tonne artic on short runs legally. It's a shocking fact that a 17-year-old novice driver is allowed to get behind the wheel an agricultural artic and drive it on the public highway, simply because of 'agricultural exemptions'. And this at a time when transient government ministers are going on about raising the car driving age to 18 and introducing a minimum requirement of 500 hours of training. JJ Bardon spent five gruelling weeks hauling potatoes with agricultural tractor and trailer combinations in Herefordshire and Shropshire. His report is depressing - and frightening. Having hooked up my Fendt 924 and heavy-duty trailer I set out with 18 othertractor/trailer combinations and their mostly young novice drivers for the harvesting fields in east Herefordshire. There are at least 150 other similar combinations on the roads around us in Hereford and Shropshire. I'm soon loaded up and pull out onto the road. The unit pulls well enough but chucks heavily and I can feel the very heavy load throughout the 21-mile journey back to base through numerous villages and roundabouts in urban and rural areas. I drive on to the scales in the complex before tipping the load and up on the screen comes 37,400kg! On most days we make three round trips totalling 150 miles, so in seven days we're covering nearly 1,100 miles. I work from 7am to between 9pm and 11pm every day and get a maximum of five hours' sleep, but I just have to keep going. Most of the drivers are running through roundabouts at almost full speed - about 33mph - fully loaded and frequently on their mobile phones as well. This gives a visible whiplash effect to the drawbar and the wheel studs of these very large and heavy trailers, some of which are brand new. This flat-out running inevitably begins to take its toll with tractors and trailers needing studs tightened. A piston has gone on one tractor and another 06-reg unit needs some attention to its gearbox. There's a problem with one combination which has an excessive weight of 36,000kg - the hydraulic rams won't lift the body of the trailer to tip the load. They disconnect one of the three rams to give the pump more capacity. This actually works, but it will probably cause long-term damage. Late one night a tractor/trailer combination in front of me just made it off the A49 into the entrance of the complex when it lost a complete rear-axle unit and a wheel from the tractor. On leaving a difficult field in the north of the county in week three, running at least 36,000kg, I find I am getting severe brake fade as I come down a gradient at least a mile long with a geriatric driver in front of me who is slowing to a crawl. Fortunately I manage not to hit her. On my return to the workshop I find the reason: a leaking air valve on the trailer. I notice there is no tread at all on two tyres on one side of the same trailer I picked up two hours earlier. I learn to my horror there is no legal limit on tread depth on agricultural trailer tyres in the UK. As long as there's no wire protruding from the tyre, it seems you can carry on. Fifteen weeks of tractor/trailer work at 14 hours a day on a potato harvest is more work than the tractors will do in the rest of the year and most of the trailers are not serviced or prepared for this intensive work period. The vast majority of heavy-duty (240-300hp) tractors have their steering set up for ploughing fields, not for hauling a 25-tonne load on blacktop. The power steering is extremely high geared and overreacts on an asphalt surface which feels really dangerous. In addition, if the variomatic models are over-revved they cut out, losing the power steering and braking - and this usually occurs when gearing down on a severe decent. The only way to regain control is to switch the ignition off and on again rapidly and select a high gear. One Sunday an experienced relief driver stands in for me. On the last journey back to the depot late at night he forgets to engage the electronic lock for the hydraulics and accidentally nudges the tail-gate lever, spreading 10 tonnes of spuds and soil over a mile of the A49. As it was Sunday night there was very little traffic and nobody was injured. This could happen to any driver, but such incidents are inevitable when working so intensively over long periods. The incidents that are being played out around us become the subject of daily conversations with the drivers I'm working with. One day I get into an argument with the farm manager and the drivers about the use of flashing beacons - they claim they are only legally required on dual carriageways. In fact the law states that their use is also required wherever and whenever a hazard is present and I continue to use mine wherever it is called for - for which I get much abuse. These same drivers refuse to use them even when travelling through very narrow lanes with high hedges and have to back up with the loaded trailer lifted, day and night, to let other traffic pass. One day we come upon Vosa officers in shiny new vehicles who have set up shop in a lay-by on the A49. They stop only commercial vehicles for most of the day despite dozens of agricultural tractor/trailer combinations flying by every hour, all grossly overloaded at this point in the journey. Finally, in the late afternoon, they stop one of our kind and he gets done for two minor light and drawbar height offences. Amazingly the Vosa officers do not weigh the unit they simply ask how much weight he is carrying. A figure is quoted. They take that unit off the road there and then - but only for the drawbar clearance offence, not the overload. A 10-year-old child could have seen what the main offence was! One of the most hair-raising activities in potato harvesting has to be putting a loose trailer cover on 20 tonnes of spuds at the side of the road on heavy rain - especially when the load is right up to the edge of the trailer. All of this is carried out while balancing on the edge of the load, grappling with a wet, slippery cover that can only go on one way round, standing nine foot above the ground. Outrageously, none of these trailers have adequate steps or grab handles - this is a great way to obtain a permanent knee injury. If health and safety want to do something useful in the agricultural industry then they should carry out this procedure a few dozen times and then ban loose covers on agricultural vehicles outright. My combination, now a 56-reg John Deer 6920S and a 15m3 trailer, is heading out one morning having just had the fuel filters changed because of sluggish pulling uphill the night before, when it becomes very noisy and dies on the side of the road. After skilled examination a broken crankshaft is revealed on this brand new tractor. There then comes a lengthy recovery procedure to get the vehicle back on the road. One thing's for sure: this has been the one and only potato harvest I will risk my life and licence on. Give me back my Scania. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I have a fair idea who he was driving for... \ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATTY 7530 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Thats so true, makes me feel bad and am only 16! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Spud hauling....one of my favorite jobs when i was younger!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughmaster Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I agree, it is horrifying. I have long regarded the state of maintenance and the high handed ignorance with which a high proportion of the agricultural industry ride roughshod over the rules and regulartions is a national disgrace. I have got fed up of being expected to use poorly maintained equipment carrying illegally heavy/wide loads and expected to travel at illegal speeds in the last few years. The article does go a bit over the top however (which is probably to be expected considering the dislike/hatred with which many in the road haulage industry regard farm vehicles on the road). They mention rules and regulations that are in place, so to infer that agricultural tractors and trailers can operate with no legal restrictions is a bit silly. The truth is that there are regulations which do severely limit what a tractor can do, where it can operate and what it can carry, but a huge proportion of those working in agriculture are either totally ignorant (and don't care) or simply flout the law. As shown in the article above, the reason they flout the law is because they will almost certainly get away with it, and the reason they get away with it is because enforcement is wholly inadequate. That is a problem that can only be rectified by the Government and VOSA. As far as I am concerned a full annual MOT test for tractors and trailers together with a mandatory regular recorded maintenance program can't come soon enough. Lets face it, in spite of the bleating of many in the industry, the only farms that are going to be put to extra expense (over and above the cost of the test itself) are those whose equipment is poorly maintained, which is really rather the point They could also perhaps tighten up the age and licensing regulations with possibly a much lower maximum permissable train weight for tractor drivers under 21, or those with less than 1 or 2 years experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATTY 7530 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 are you even legal on the road at 16?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simong Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 i personally think there should be some kind of test for the younger driver to haul all that weight as you have to be 21 to drive an artic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deere-est Posted June 14, 2010 Author Share Posted June 14, 2010 Fully agree with all points ploughmaster made. I'm lucky that the people I work for do like to keep lights, brakes etc in check and that we don't have any huge machinery or young drivers. Many around me do though and I would welcome any move to bring age, experience, vehicle type, size etc into play regarding licences just as it does for cars, motorbikes, buses and lorries. I can see hours/shifts being an awkward one to navigate in road haulage work but the uk domestic drivers' hours would almost suffice. Of course, I don't own any machinery or employ any people so it is easy for me to welcom such changes. Common sense does tend to justify my view though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Fully agree with all points ploughmaster made. I'm lucky that the people I work for do like to keep lights, brakes etc in check and that we don't have any huge machinery or young drivers. Many around me do though and I would welcome any move to bring age, experience, vehicle type, size etc into play regarding licences just as it does for cars, motorbikes, buses and lorries. I can see hours/shifts being an awkward one to navigate in road haulage work but the uk domestic drivers' hours would almost suffice. Of course, I don't own any machinery or employ any people so it is easy for me to welcom such changes. Common sense does tend to justify my view though! To an extent though many people who drive tractors have had experience in fields & around the yard & such things before they do a test so have a certain feel for the machine already & know the dimensions & thing like that. I know driving on the road with other traffic & conditions is much different from being in the field. But i agree compared to other vehicles, the rules for drivers on age & weight is very slack compared with other industies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractorman810 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 must say that the vosa arround here are s*** hot on agri stuff driving round, seen numerous pulled over and being checked out, doesnt take away the need for different stages of license like any new young driver has to take now, for agri stuff mind, no way is a 16 year old in a axion with sf16 silage trailer doing 50 k safe, no experiace at all at that age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH885XLMAN Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 as a reguard to road fatigue to tractors and trailers think what abuse goes on in the field ..when i was younger and more gullable i used to do spud hauling on nights not the higher paid 4 on 4 off i do these days in a nice clean warehouse but i was working 84 hours a week sometimes on runs like our friend speaks of andin a 40 mile radious with just grabbing what break you get at the grader or in the field (in most cases this could be 5 minto 15 min) every 2 hours one time on nights someone got stuck ,this happens to all of us at some stage but the way we got pulled out would make a mechanic cry you could have 4 tractors pulling one tractor and half loaded trailer free.. imagine the tractor in the middle of that pulling underso much pressure !!!! no suprize the bell houseing on one broke in 2 places and they are a liabilty if i say so my self these days as none will pull up and let traffic pass i always pulled in when i had an opertunity but today these drivers dont even care if there is 20 to 40 or even 400 cars behind them \ \ \ something has got to be done now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Everyone here is going on about experience it plays a part, but to a certain extent its the driver who knows what he is capable off & what he thinks he is safe to drive. If he feels he is unsafe or not experienced enought he sould say no but then risks loosing his job. Also some people when they drive are just arse's no matter how much experience they have. But then they become complacent & then overlook things which may lead to an incident. With the flashing light point whenever i go on the road no matter how far & on any road i will put the beacon on its not doing any harm to have it on so whats the problem, its there you so you may as well use it the amount off people i see without them on. On the vosa front they are starting to pick up on agri stuff around here 1 contractor had equipment stopped 7 times in one day , altough he was running a tractor with no reg on one so kinda asking for problems there. One other was a claas rake it "obscured" the number plate on the tractor & with no plate on the rake he was stopped. so a word off warning maybe for those off you who dont have plates on the rake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IH885XLMAN Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Everyone here is going on about experience it plays a part, but to a certain extent its the driver who knows what he is capable off & what he thinks he is safe to drive. If he feels he is unsafe or not experienced enought he sould say no but then risks loosing his job. Also some people when they drive are just Bum's no matter how much experience they have. But then they become complacent & then overlook things which may lead to an incident. With the flashing light point whenever i go on the road no matter how far & on any road i will put the beacon on its not doing any harm to have it on so whats the problem, its there you so you may as well use it the amount off people i see without them on. On the vosa front they are starting to pick up on agri stuff around here 1 contractor had equipment stopped 7 times in one day , altough he was running a tractor with no reg on one so kinda asking for problems there. One other was a claas rake it "obscured" the number plate on the tractor & with no plate on the rake he was stopped. so a word off warning maybe for those off you who dont have [glow=red,2,300]plates on the rake [/glow] sounds like a sequel to "snakes on a plane" why stop at rakes and why cant the manufacturers make "****** plates"for these machines that go on the back of tractors ,now there is a trade to make money installing snach plate holders on farm machinery like balers dung spreaders forage harvesters ect HGVs need them by law why not agi vehicles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi6920 Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Wow i need to come drive in the uk, The cops over here are Hounding tractors, alot of contractors are getting fedd up, im getting pulled over once a week, i drove one of our tractors 250km last week, just a tractor, no implaments, pulled over 3 times, but was never done for any thing!!! our tractors have to have a warrent and trailer saftey chains and weight certafied draw bars for starters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archbarch Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 farmers and growers are obsessed with sprayer safety and spraying regulations yet when it comes to trailers and road work anything goes, there are a few that take a lead but too many couldnt give a dam, regulation is long overdue. I am no fan of Fastracs and i think theyve added to the problem of road transport for agri kit. The Mogs ive driven are so much better equipped for road work than a Fastrac, larger brake discs, ABS, exhaust brake, tacho and better engine emissions put the Unimog ahead of the Fastrac and that was years ago. The last year i spent spraying was hell on the road, longer journeys, heavier traffic, longer days i found it more demanding and stressful. Those that say the industry wont survive if speed limits, weight limits and other regulations are introduced are just talking b!!!!!!!s, play fair with the haulage industry and other industries for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Putting in a case for the other side, while I can't see the likes of some farmers ever getting to grips with new [or existing!] laws relating to ag kit in the same way they've never got to grips with reading, writing and personal hygiene, there are many who would legitimately suggest that once the UK re-evaluates how they buy then they will re-evaluate how they supply. The consumer demands dirt cheap food, the most essential item they can buy is seen as a pointless luxury purchase by many and they want to buy a bag of spuds for 5p, supermarkets put pressure on suppliers for ever more perfect produce and consistently screw the market price down, European bureaucrats want to control the way the countryside looks and all in all the ag industry is looked on with disdain by pretty well everyone. We have always been careful to ensure our kit is well maintained and up to the job, but there is no money there to do it, we can only invest because we fund everything else through separate incomes. If the supermarkets get a rocket up their ar&e, the consumer takes a bit more responsibility for their nation's economy and spends more on home produced food and less on designer clothes and widescreen TV's, and the EU just sling their hook, chances are the wider ag industry would be able to post some profits, and then we could implement some rules on the condition of their equipment and the operatives that use it. But so long as the industry is on a knife edge of bankruptcy and the nation does nothing about it, farms are forced to scrape along the bottom and get the job done any way they can, as cheaply and efficiently as possible. I've said this before on various subjects, we don't need more red tape, we need that we already have enforcing properly and we need to incentivise and educate those we wish to improve.... And on top of all that, for all the panic that something might happen, I've only ever known a couple of very minor things happen round here caused by tractor drivers [and bear in mind the guy who writes the article wqas driving for one of the local outfits], a spud harvester clipped the side of a car parked on double yellows in town, and one of the planting boys drove his bed tiller across the flower bed on a roundabout on the A49 in some 'end of planting high jinks'. I've only known one person get killed round here in an accident with an ag machine, a young girl who came round a corner on the wrong side of the road and went under a Fendt. A horrible tragedy but not the tractor driver's fault... So yes, it's not perfect, but not a cause for hysteria either.... What about the 40 year old tractors with only brakes on the rear axle towing unbraked 3 tonne trailers at speeds, in cases, up to 50k...? OK, they will do less damage if they hit someone's car, but they're far more likely to have accidents in narrow lanes with high hedges, where people walk and children cycle.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deere-est Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 It is a big knock on effect for sure. Maybe even wages would improve in the ideal world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archbarch Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 the same dirt cheap demand doesnt stop farmers spending gross amounts of money on other flash machinery so why should it have an affect on trailers and the way theyre used????? I think that some farmers need to think how they operate, even block croping would help reduce the amount of road travel, maybe even temporary storage solutions in some cases? a bit of organisation could help no end for everyone but at the same time play fair. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 that's why i worrie about 'new' boys that drive for the contractor some of them are just fresh out the town and never had any Major tractor work, when they haul grass it seems to be a good idea and go heavy on the right foot. they dont seem to know how long it would take to stop a tractor going flat out with say 10t of grass in the back accident waiting to happen. another one i worrie about plenty plant contractors going about this county just now. They are hauling rock for drive ways, drains or whatever you see them coming out the quarry, tractor no where near capable of pulling the load. The weight that must be in some of the trailers that pass here is unreal. Seen a good few tractors here in caithness blowing the pistons and wrecking wheels or castings, that was a very intersting read Tris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis086 Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 here here is all i can say to everything simon said in his post they talk about thread depth on tyres i remember my dad coming home from a teagasc talk where they were told to get the most out of a pair of tyres to cut costs i know few farmers who are hoarders generally what ever money people make is ploughed straight back into the farms on improvements and maintenance if there was more money for people to spend then im sure people would carry on the same habits but it would mean at the end of the year people wouldnt have to worry about if the price they would get for their cattle/milk/crop would cover the overdraft they had to take out to cover these costs in an ideal world sure farmers would have everything in tip top condition but we dont and when you think about it how many accidents actually happen in agriculture if you compare it to others it is very small. and i dont think you would find someone who wouldnt replace a worn tow eye if it was pointed out by a driver or a tyre or a set of brakes/lights htere are people who do use this lack of regulation as a way around problems and use tractors for other task but these generally come from other sectors and these are the people who should be stopped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MODELFARMER Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 yes here here simon That articale is complete bullpoo For 1 example He cannot be a flash driver, driving a fendt with an exhaust brake and talking about brake fade? what the hell's he using the brakes for? the exhaust brake should slow that train on nearly all gradients! the same dirt cheap demand doesnt stop farmers spending gross amounts of money on other flash machinery so why should it have an affect on trailers and the way theyre used? ??? ? I think that some farmers need to think how they operate, even block croping would help reduce the amount of road travel, maybe even temporary storage solutions in some cases? a bit of organisation could help no end for everyone but at the same time play fair. . Block cropping?? Depending on what ground you have to farm and rotations that i reckon is highly unlikely to be anyway feasable!! And just the other day a police officer was telling me these points after i asked him do i have to pull over if there are lots of cars behind. .. "You are taxed?" YES "You are insured?" YES "you are doing work" YES "You have as much right to be on the road as anyone else, no matter the speed (eg slow combine) no one can put you off" Also "If you pull in to let cars past it is purely at your own discration" Now if im on the road and a lorry come up behind me if theres a hard shoulder i'll pull over let him through , if theres cars behind , , , hit REROUTE on yer sat nav i'm staying put! MUHAHAHAHAHAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughmaster Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 I am sorry, but to both simon, denis and MODELFARMER: the fact of whether or not you are making a profit and whether supermarkets are screwing your prices down is irrelevant. The arrogant 'it'll be OK' and ' I have a right to do as I like' kind of attitude of some in farming is totally unacceptable. We are talking about compliance with The Law, we are talking about carrying out agricultural transport safely and the fact is that far too many tractor/trailer combinations are being used not only beyond their legal limits, but also beyond their design parameters. Normal agricultural tractors are simply not safe at speeds much beyond 20mph, and for instance, when you have a 200hp tractor weighing most of 10 tonnes pulling an 18 tonne capacity trailer (which will have an unladen weight of 5 or 6 tonnes), the braking systems currently fitted to agricultural tractors and trailers are wholly inadequate to safely stop it within an acceptable distance in an emergency; Then add to that the woeful attitude found on a lot of farms towards proper maintenance, and the use of inexperienced and often untrained drivers..... If farmers and managers don't know the rules, it is their obligation to find out about them. If they are unable to grasp the meaning of them, they should not be farming. There are plenty of profitable farms who do operate within the law, and keep their equipment in good order (even some who are big suppliers to the main supermarket groups). Industry on a knife edge of bankruptcy; don't make me laugh. And to suggest that a lack of profit is an excuse for operating in an unsafe and illegal manner is risible. On a slightly different tack, there is also a serious problem with understaffed farms routinely sending oversize machines on the road without the required escort. We had a situation here in Lincolnshire a couple of years ago involving a combine with no escort being involved in a fatal collision. Both the driver and his manager were charged and faced a custodial sentence if convicted (they ended up being given a conditional discharge on a lesser charge mainly because the dead man had been speeding). Sadly, I don't think the farming press even bothered reporting it. http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/news/Farm-worker-spared-jail-sentence-combine-harvester-death-crash/article-1488679-detail/article.html How many people do we have to kill before it gets into the heads of some in agriculture that they need to change their attitude. I'm sorry if I am ruffling feathers No, on second thoughts, I'm not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MODELFARMER Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 The arrogant 'it'll be OK' and ' I have a right to do as I like' kind of attitude of some in farming is totally unacceptable. So you are saying its ok for supemarkets to F£$% us in the behind with prices with this exact same attitude but we are not allowed to do the same? HA HA Get off your high horse, If the playing field was level WHICH IT IS NOT then we'd all play ball, Goverment and the public are to blame at the end of the day, all they want to do is import, they don't give a stuff what or where it comes from as long as it comes and cheap, we have to go bigger machines to do work efficiently these days, if i had to wait on police to escort me everytime i was headin to the road i'd never get all done in a year nevermind what i need to do in a day to try and stay viable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archbarch Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 farmers wanting a level playing field!!!!!!!! Then play fair with hauliers who are at the same time being screwed by all companies including supermarkets. This issue isnt just about safety!!!!! Some of the previous comments give farming a bad name and its because of this attitude legislation is the only way to go. Block cropping can help but so many farmers cannot see the benefits, not just when it comes to transport but other tasks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughmaster Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 So you are saying its ok for supemarkets to F£$% us in the behind with prices with this exact same attitude but we are not allowed to do the same? HA HA I'm not saying anything of the kind. Get off your high horse The only ones on high horses are those arrogant individuals who behave as though they are above the law, and those who seek to defend such behaviour with spurious arguments. If the playing field was level WHICH IT IS NOT then we'd all play ball, Goverment and the public are to blame at the end of the day, all they want to do is import, they don't give a stuff what or where it comes from as long as it comes and cheap, we have to go bigger machines to do work efficiently these days, What I am saying is that plenty of farms are selling to the supermarkets and still make a good profit. It is a global market, and whilst farmers in some other parts of the world are given an unfair advantage, that is not the fault of the supermarkets. It is equally true to say that some farmers in other countries are very much less 'feather bedded' than farmers in Europe are (New Zealand being a case in point) and yet they are still able to export to us at similar (or lower) end prices than those at which some UK farmers 'claim' they can't make money. To those who claim they can't make a profit, well, perhaps they should look carefully at their business and ask whether they should be producing something different, or even whether they should be in the business at all \ Either way, it is no excuse for flouting the law, and to suggest that you should be allowed to do so is not only arrogant and irresponsible, it will end up causing the Government to bring in even more stringent legislation, but UK agriculture has a long history of ignoring the rules and then whingeing when they are further tightened. It is time some in the industry woke up and entered the real world if i had to wait on police to escort me everytime i was headin to the road i'd never get all done in a year nevermind what i need to do in a day to try and stay viable! You do not need a police escort, but depending on the size and weight of the machine you are required to provide an escort yourself. In normal circumstances you are only required to provide the police with 24 hours notification of the movement if travelling more than 5 miles. In practice you can apply to your local police force abnormal loads officer for a dispensation from the requirement to notify them (which will usually be granted without question). The information on loads and width restrictions and the action that needs to be taken when they are exceeded is basic knowledge that every farmer, contractor and farmworker should either know or have to hand, and should adhere to . The rules are there for reasons of safety; they are not there simply as an annoyance to farmers, and agriculture as a whole has many exemptions and less onerous rules to follow than most other industries have to, but most in farming don't (or won't) appreciate this. If you wish to move such equipment in breach of the law, don't be surprised if the law bites you back when something goes wrong. As in the case I linked to, managing to avoid a catastrophe is often dependent on the behaviour of other drivers and is beyond your control. Again, just because someone finds it hard to keep up with the workload and remain in profit is not an excuse for breaking the law \ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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