Scales and the reasons behind them?

[MuirHillyBilly]

Hi all

I've often thought of the rationale behind the model makers producing models in different scales but never had the in-depth knowledge to answer the question. Is it down to demand? Down to manufacturing factors? Simply to create diversity? or other reasons?

Does anyone know the rough percentage sales of the different scales? (1:32, 1:16, 1:43 etc...) It is perhaps fair to assume that 1:32 rules the roost which sits well with me as it's by and large the only scale I buy, I do find it frustrating that some models I would love are in the wrong scale, whilst I understand 1:16 allows for huge detail and more of an 'ornament' product, I don't really understand the production of what would be very popular models in scales smaller than 1:32?

What are your thoughts?

EDIT: I have also added a poll just to get a snapshot of what you guys all buy.

[roberthenning]

I like 1:32 as thats what im used too, growing up with britains, they have the best size to detail ratio i think too and they are a nice size for both the self and display, although displays do tend to get a bit too big.

Do see the point of 1:16 as they are nice for the person who only collects a few as they do take up alot of room, and the amount of detail is astonishing.

Dont know why or see the point of 1;43 as theres just not enough implements out or even many tractors for that matter

The smaller ones for model railways have immense detial, have a few wiking lorries and they put some of the 1:32 stuff to shame for detail

[MuirHillyBilly]

I agree with your points, also the likes of UH, Weise and Schuco are now producing 1:32 tractors that are more detailed than some of the 1:16 ones which begs the question; Why not re-issue a raft of 'classics' like old Masseys, Countys, Internationals etc that are only available in 1:16? Surely, for example, a County 654 in 1:32 would sell by the barrel load??

[Fenside MF]

I have a huge collection(maybe a thousand) of 1/18,1/24 and 1/43 cars and can't see the point of those scales anymore.

What I like about 1/32 is that you can mostly get all sorts of models now from agricultural models all the way through to cars ,lorrys etc.

[david_scrivener]

The reasons behind the various scales go way back into the history of various sectors of the toy industry, especially (as they were dominant for a long time) the larger scales of toy trains, 1 guage and O guage, popular before the toy train community settled on smaller  OO/OH scales.

We are where we are, with 1/32 being the main toy soldier scale, 1/43 being the main toy car scale, and larger scales, such as 1/16 being the preserve of single models for adult collectors, being too large for dioramas/layouts. Although there are obviously problems with details on smaller scales, there is a lot to be said for 1/43 when it comes to layouts, be it for a farm/country/town scene in civilian life or a battle/castle military scene.

On the soldier/military side, I can only say that some of the castles I have look a lot better with smaller than 1/32 figures, such as Britains very old 'B Series', and even then, a castle or battle cannot be 'realistically' represented in a permanent diorama in most collectors' homes, and would have been even less the case in a child's nursery. After all, they might be 'models', 'collectables' or 'antiques' now, but they were originally 'toys'!

These are complicated issues, and we have to make decisions about "where we're coming from" (in my case mainly a Britains & similar figure collector, be they farm, zoo, soldiers or whatever), and what we're trying to 'achieve' in our collection, which might be a diorama/layout, a collection of the products of a particular toy/model manufacturer, or models as part of a collection relating to some other interest, in the case of many members here, often tractors & other farm machinery, hence all your other threads about real farming, real machinery brochures, etc.   

[THEBRITFARMER]

Location also plays a factor with 1/64 being the favourite in North America followed by 1/16. 1/32 is not as easy to find over here but it is becoming a bit more popular. Funny though that for toy soldiers 1/32 is the norm.

[MuirHillyBilly]

The reasons behind the various scales go way back into the history of various sectors of the toy industry, especially (as they were dominant for a long time) the larger scales of toy trains, 1 guage and O guage, popular before the toy train community settled on smaller  OO/OH scales.

We are where we are, with 1/32 being the main toy soldier scale, 1/43 being the main toy car scale, and larger scales, such as 1/16 being the preserve of single models for adult collectors, being too large for dioramas/layouts. Although there are obviously problems with details on smaller scales, there is a lot to be said for 1/43 when it comes to layouts, be it for a farm/country/town scene in civilian life or a battle/castle military scene.

On the soldier/military side, I can only say that some of the castles I have look a lot better with smaller than 1/32 figures, such as Britains very old 'B Series', and even then, a castle or battle cannot be 'realistically' represented in a permanent diorama in most collectors' homes, and would have been even less the case in a child's nursery. After all, they might be 'models', 'collectables' or 'antiques' now, but they were originally 'toys'!

These are complicated issues, and we have to make decisions about "where we're coming from" (in my case mainly a Britains & similar figure collector, be they farm, zoo, soldiers or whatever), and what we're trying to 'achieve' in our collection, which might be a diorama/layout, a collection of the products of a particular toy/model manufacturer, or models as part of a collection relating to some other interest, in the case of many members here, often tractors & other farm machinery, hence all your other threads about real farming, real machinery brochures, etc. 

Thank you for a more in-depth understanding of the scales and their history, very interesting and it's easy to forget how far the industry goes back. I would still ask in terms of farming and the relevant off-shoots of it, why, if 1:32 is the very strong leader, why are many new releases still emerging in other smaller scales? I guess someone is buying them it just seems a little strange.

[MuirHillyBilly]

Location also plays a factor with 1/64 being the favourite in North America followed by 1/16. 1/32 is not as easy to find over here but it is becoming a bit more popular. Funny though that for toy soldiers 1/32 is the norm.

That, in part, answers my previous question and I have noticed that Ertl and the other large American producers do also carry a lot of other scales, (notably First Gear do a lot of trucks in 1:34 scale I found out recently) However what is the history behind Universal Hobbies, Weise and other European companies and the other scales?, if Britains farm series was always 1:32 I wonder why UH et al went for other scales too 

[david_scrivener]

I guess that the people buying the smaller scales are essentially 'toy car collectors'.

1/34 scale is near enough to 1/32 for all but the most OCD afflicted collectors. 

[THEBRITFARMER]

I guess that the people buying the smaller scales are essentially 'toy car collectors'.

1/34 scale is near enough to 1/32 for all but the most OCD afflicted collectors. 

and also a lot of military modelling is done in 1:35 scale as well.

[MuirHillyBilly]

and also a lot of military modelling is done in 1:35 scale as well.

I'm not that picky  I got a Revell model Unimog the other day for £7 in 1:35 so hope it looks suitable when built 

[david_scrivener]

It's even worse for toy/model zoo collectors, unless the toy manufacturers have discovered species of giant penguins and/or dwarf elephants which are unknown to real zoologists. 

The old lead JoHillCo range was especially silly in this regard, but then, hey they were toys, and made to a limited range of prices per item.

[FNHIR]

I think Britains chose 1:32 for their farm models as this was the scale of their military figures, not sure of the origins of that though

[david_scrivener]

I think Britains chose 1:32 for their farm models as this was the scale of their military figures, not sure of the origins of that though

Yes it is the same scale as their soldiers, and the same scale as many, although not all, French and German toy soldier/figure manufacturers, and the same scale as guage 1 trains, all as applicable in the 1890s.

Britains started their farm range in 1922 and their zoo & garden ranges in 1930, but there had been some similar ranges, plus Noah's Arks ('Sunday toys') imported before then. 

[ertlerik]

I collect 1/16 I do have about 30 1/32 tractors, but my main collection is about 300 1/16

[schw84]

is it not to do with licencing issues..... if they do the models in a different scale i.e 1:43 are they not then allowed to do them in 1:32??? this got round the issue of ertl having all the licences for models etc did it not?

[JMC]

So if they release something in 1/16 and 1/43 can UH not do the same model in 1/32 ? I would love to see there MF175 in 1/32 !

[THEBRITFARMER]

is it not to do with licencing issues..... if they do the models in a different scale i.e 1:43 are they not then allowed to do them in 1:32??? this got round the issue of ertl having all the licences for models etc did it not?

I doubt it, UH make a Fordson Major and an MF35X in 1:43, 1:32 & 1:16.

[schw84]

yes but isnt it the case that if someone has the paitent for 1:32 you can then only make the models in other scales... if you have the models in other scales you can then make them in 1:32 ?

[david_scrivener]

I imagine contracts vary a great deal according to how desirable 'the image' is. So to make a model of something for which there is likely to be little demand, either from rival model making companies or the retail buying public, a contract might cover all scales, for models to be sold anywhere in the world. Probably very different for say, classic or sports cars, where each model making company will have to settle for a thin slice of the metaphorical pie in terms of scales each is allowed to make, and where they're allowed to sell them.

[Tractorman810]

yes but isnt it the case that if someone has the paitent for 1:32 you can then only make the models in other scales... if you have the models in other scales you can then make them in 1:32 ?

i guess that sort of makes sence, britains do the ford 7600 for sure and did they do a 7000 to???

if thats the case then we  should see a 16th scale mf590 and a 32nd scale mf175 from them, but not a 1200 or 1250 as classic combines do them already

[ploughmaster]

is it not to do with licencing issues..... if they do the models in a different scale i.e 1:43 are they not then allowed to do them in 1:32??? this got round the issue of ertl having all the licences for models etc did it not?

Most recent licences are make/model and scale specific - just because a model manufacturer is licenced to make a specific tractor model in one scale doesn't automatically entitle them to make it in any other scale, and certainly has not enabled any maker to 'get around' licencing issues with some OEMs.

I don't understand your point about Ertl - they have never had "all the licences".  They did have an exclusive licence for John Deere, under which nobody else could obtain a licence to make JD models without both JD themselves and Ertl allowing it (the Siku licencing started as a bit of an anomaly as it was originally done through John Deere Germany - I believe it was done without the knowledge or permission of the US management). There are one or two US model makers who obtained licences for specific JD tractors, but no other toy manufacturer has a JD licence (nor are they likely to get one in the near future I would think)

There was also and exclusive arrangement between Ertl and International Harvester (which I think also required the agreement of Ertl before a licence would be granted to another toy/model manufacturer), but I am not sure how that stood once IH merged with Case and then New Holland (and under the overall ownership of FIAT). 

Not that this is really within the original topic 

[JoshParkinson]

i sometimes wonder why they don't make 1/50 more detailed, a lot of trucks are in 1/50 and they are all pretty good for detail, not only that but it would save money and you would have more room on layouts, but i'll stick to 1/32.

[ploughmaster]

yes but isnt it the case that if someone has the paitent for 1:32 you can then only make the models in other scales... if you have the models in other scales you can then make them in 1:32 ?

 

Only if they were to have a general licence - and I think most current licencing is model and scale specific.