archbarch Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 a couple of years ago i took the decission to quit spraying for various reasons. Im interested to know what machines are being used at the moment, especially boom widths im amazed at the amount of 36m machines out working. As i mentioned in the chaser bin topic air assisted sprayers are gimmickey they were marketed to reduce drift and chemical usage. Having worked for a contractor there are no chemicals approved for use with air assisted sprayers. Using the right nozzle/presure, angle can be just as effective as using air. The sprayers we used were built by ourselves, i know i will upset alot of people but the only sprayers on the uk market worth bothering with are Housham and Chafer but thats just my opinion. Im also no fan of low volume application i firmly believe at least 200l/ha, with 400l/ha for potatoes and other veg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1/32 farmer Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 heres one its a challanger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav836 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Most about this way are 24m be it trailed, self propelled or in our case mounted, we are currently looking at replacements and are trying to decide between Knight, John Deere and Berthoud trailed machines. There is one 42m Rau sprayer working locally to here though :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractorman810 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 varied mix this way, most self propelled seem to be bateman, trailed well take your pick anything from old chaffers to a new berthroyd i saw the other day mounted are much the same did see a weird mounted outfit the other month, in spuds i think, all the booms and underside were fitted with what looked like air bags ? over them, is this the "air assisted system" you mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy140 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 its varied round here. we have just bought a hardi mounted, one neighbor has chafers and the other has houseman. Alot of people say knight are good sprayers though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archbarch Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 there are 2 types of air assisted sleeved boom which is basically a bag that is filled with air via a large fan or the air assisted nozzle Cleanacres type which uses air through a nozzle. Years ago there were no examiners qualified to test air assisted sprayers for the fepa regs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractorman810 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 so the one i saw was one of them then? never seen one before, he even had a big tarp right along the underside of the tractor to the front tank, was down near cerins place, between chiverton cross and carmino cross, just by the shortcut to threemilestone, cerin will know them for sure, big spud growers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archbarch Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 its varied round here. we have just bought a hardi mounted, one neighbor has chafers and the other has houseman. Alot of people say knight are good sprayers though Knight are ok better to go for the Anglian Sprayers version though not sure if they still do them vastly improved machine. I also know of a few Knight sprayers sold with zinc finnished bolts on the spray line when it was stated they would be used with liquid N, only stainless is acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 housman few chafer but mainly bateman around me one operator told me there is a couple of years wait for batemans so he was told at cereals this year he is waiting for a new one ,mainly 24mtr but some 36 mtr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archbarch Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 so the one i saw was one of them then? never seen one before, he even had a big tarp right along the underside of the tractor to the front tank, was down near cerins place, between chiverton cross and carmino cross, just by the shortcut to threemilestone, cerin will know them for sure, big spud growers Not many people use belly sheets anymore they reduce damage to the crop as the machine passes over it and helps keep the paint on. I have known filters to wear through on the underside some tractors spraying high dense crops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractorman810 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 thought that was what it was for, sort of makes sence to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archbarch Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 housman few chafer but mainly bateman around me one operator told me there is a couple of years wait for batemans so he was told at cereals this year he is waiting for a new one ,mainly 24mtr but some 36 mtr Bateman are very popular i think the waiting list helps them sell, they are very cheap compared to most SP machines. Mostt people i know with new batemans only bought them on price and would have preffered a Househam. In my opinion the cabs are too small and paint finnish dreadful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archbarch Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Most about this way are 24m be it trailed, self propelled or in our case mounted, we are currently looking at replacements and are trying to decide between Knight, John Deere and Berthoud trailed machines. There is one 42m Rau sprayer working locally to here though :o anyone looking at a new sprayer should follow one down the road, they are deesigned to work with booms unfolded but most of the damage done to booms is done whilst in transit, you can get more boom whip along a short road journey than in the field all day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav836 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I think the Knight is the favourite for us just on build quality and parts back up alone, we know the Berthoud will be the cheapest and will also give us the best trade in price for our existing one. John Deere is the unknown, I'd rather it was discounted because of parts prices, availability and it's a John Deere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughmaster Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 The most noticeable thing in the last 3 or 4 years is the ridiculously wide booms that seem to be all the rage. In the space of three years I went from using 12m to 24m, and then, with a change of job to 30m. Now there are 40m+ around. My own opinion is that anything over 24m is not really practical. Even at 24, it is very difficult to keep the boom at a constant height across its width. Coupled with uneven seedbeds and undulating fields, this in turn makes it well near impossible to keep to the optimum 50cm above the crop, thus creating problems of drift. As you go to wider and wider booms, the problem becomes worse (unless you can achieve a bowling green level seedbed). Even self levelling systems struggle to work effectively with 30m+ widths (and drift only increases slightly up to around 70cm above the crop, but beyond this, drift doubles for every 10cm increase in boom height according to trials done by Syngenta). Eliminating drift has to be the number one priority for the future - otherwise we will end up with unworkable restrictions being imposed on spraying near houses (a very big exclusion zone is one threat hanging over us) I don't think there is a lot to choose between manufacturers nowadays, Househam, Bateman and Sands seem to be very well thought of, but my opinion of Chafer has been clouded by the appalling contraptions they produced a few years ago (I worked on one farm that ran a Chafer SSV - without a word of a lie, it broke down virtually every time it went out of the yard: blown wheel motor seals, burst hydraulic pipes, split hydraulic tank, decaying copper wire in the loom, broken springs, and to finish off, the top of the boom carrier broke away - all this in its first season). My recent experiences have been with Sands, (a manufacturer I had previously not thought much of), but I have to say all 3 machines I have used were well built, and pretty reliable - the back up was superb. The only big problems were with the first 30m one - they used the same frame and hinges as a 24m, and they wouldn't take the weight and kept cracking. The next machine had a much beefier frame and hinges (also used on their 36m boom), and were much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schw84 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Well If I had the money to have any sprayer it would be this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griffithsbros Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 mostly seem to have bateman self propelleds here, not seen much else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archbarch Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 I think the Knight is the favourite for us just on build quality and parts back up alone, we know the Berthoud will be the cheapest and will also give us the best trade in price for our existing one. John Deere is the unknown, I'd rather it was discounted because of parts prices, availability and it's a John Deere That would be worth trying Anglia sprayers at Ely for knight especially their version. i would agree about JD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archbarch Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 i think Landquip are the only manufacturer to use ally booms, not easy to repair. I think 36m machines have been popular in the fens as they fit in with the irrigation systems. I havent seen anything bigger than 36 tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schw84 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I live down the road from landquip and we brought a set of alloy contractors booms and rigged them to our old sprayer body you can hit telegraph poles with them and they dont bend easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archbarch Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 its when they crack is the problem, you also need to be careful with certain chemicals and fertiliser. I bet those ally booms were expensive with prices of late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Well I'm running on 24m on a 2500 acre farm so you can imagine at this point since combines stopped iv still done 1000's acres spraying and still learning big time with it all but im seriously interested in how people cope with the larger booms as i struggled like mad on cultivated ground to keep an even height and not having booms hit the ground and trying not to get too much drift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archbarch Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 boom height is an ideal set by the nozzle manufacturer at a set pressure. If you lower pressure you can lift the boom without any compromise in coverage, use different nozzles. By putting some paper on the ground and doing a pass over it you will be amazed how much coverage you get even in windy conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryh141 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Were running a new bateman sprayer with 24m booms, works a treat with the lgp tyres. Not many around in the area, moslt seem to be various tractor mounted ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughmaster Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 boom height is an ideal set by the nozzle manufacturer at a set pressure. If you lower pressure you can lift the boom without any compromise in coverage, use different nozzles. By putting some paper on the ground and doing a pass over it you will be amazed how much coverage you get even in windy conditions. It is certainly correct to say that the manufacturers have designed their nozzles to work at at a given height and pressure, but the reason they are designed like that is because that is the optimum height and pressure for effective application without exposing the operation to significant drift. There is only a certain amount of scope for altering pressures and nozzle height without compromising performance of the active ingredient. This is one reason that it is increasingly common to change to different types of nozzle for different pesticides - the old days of spraying everything with one nozzle type and all at the same volume have long gone. The reason the change from the old 80 degree fan nozzles to 110 degrees was made primarily to allow the reduction in optimum boom height to around 50cm, precisely because many of the modern pesticides require application as a medium or fine quality spray, and the smaller droplet sizes are more vulnerable to drift. Research (by Syngenta in particular) has shown that drift starts to increase dramatically when the nozzle height increases to more than 70cm above the crop, regardless of droplet size/pressure/nozzle type. This is the reason for the 50cm optimum designed into most nozzles. This is where, in my opinion, very wide booms become impractical, as it is difficult if not impossible to maintain a low enough boom height to avoid significant drift - particularly on undulating ground (and most farms prepare such rough seedbeds nowadays which makes it even worse). Modern automatic boom height controllers help, but due to damping of boom movement, struggle to react anywhere near quickly enough to cope (particularly at the high speeds that many sprayers are expected to travel at now - 18km/h is fast becoming the norm). The problem isn't helped by the fact that most farms are grossly under capacity when it comes to sprayers. Most have used bigger sprayers, wider booms and faster spraying speeds to reduce staff, rather than to allow them to keep more on top of the job and avoid having to spray in doubtful conditions. Indeed, I frequently see sprayers working in wholly unacceptable wind conditions, and unless the industry wakes up and mends its ways, we will end up with huge buffer zones and strict weather restrictions being imposed upon us. For wheat growers, as a rule of thumb (from Syngenta research), you should be able to cover your wheat area in 3 to 4 days at most to get both optimum timing and avoid unsuitable weather conditions. I would hazard a guess that not many large arable farms are actually well enough equipped or well enough organised to achieve anywhere near that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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