Robert in NY Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I am looking for a 100 horse tractor to replace my 7710-II eventually and was talking to the MF dealer today and he was showing me the 5400 series. One thing I noticed and was curious about is the engine choices. On the MF 5465 you have the Perkins 1106 (402 CID, 6 cylinder) putting out 100 pto hp. On the 5470 you have the Sisu 44CTA (269 CID, 4 cylinder) putting out 105 pto hp. Both are rated at 2200 RPM to reach their hp numbers. I know Sisu has a good reputation as does Perkins but to me a 6 cylinder would be better then a 4 cylinder. I like the added length wheelbase the 6 cylinder provides also. So does anyone have any thoughts? Does a 4 cylinder putting out 105 horses with less displacment seem like a better option then a 6 cylinder putting out 100 horses with more displacement? Also, please note I am not buying one anytime soon. I just noticed these engine options today and it made me wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPN Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 BOB! Even talking to the MF dealer is enough to send you to Hell! :'( :'( :'( How you can even think of going backwards from the 7710 is beyond me. Downgrading from one of the best tractors ever made - how could you? Worst case scenario - if she goes porous - upgrade to a TS110 engine. You'll never look back (or be ashamed to be seen in public, like you would if you had a *cough* Massey!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert in NY Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 BOB! Even talking to the MF dealer is enough to send you to Hell! :'( :'( :'( How you can even think of going backwards from the 7710 is beyond me. Downgrading from one of the best tractors ever made - how could you? Worst case scenario - if she goes porous - upgrade to a TS110 engine. You'll never look back (or be ashamed to be seen in public, like you would if you had a *cough* Massey!) The 7710 motor went out and I took it to my NH dealer to be repaired. They screwed me over something fierce so I will never deal with them again. Long story short, a $5k repair estimate turned into a $13k bill as they did a lot of work they were not suppose to do. So I have been talking with my Case-IH dealer and most likely will buy from them (the next best thing to blue is the red version ) but I had to ask the Massey dealer what they had since I was there for some plow parts. I may still buy a New Holland TD95D but if I do it will be from a different dealer and I will have a huge sign made up to plant in my front lawn so everyone knows where it came from a red tractor would save me the cost of the sign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPN Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Jeebus! I know the Dollar is going down the tubes, but $13K for a replacement engine is a bit steep. Only one TD95D round these parts - upgrade from a 6600Q. Here's a pic I took one day when it arrived alongside the Jag I was passenger on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow legs Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 6cyd all the way i own operate a 6 pot jd 3040 2wd, dyno readout says 96hp (ment to be 90hp) and were i used to work had a 4cyd mf 3070 (92hp) 4wd, mine ran rings round the mf it was a 91 H reg and my jd was a much older 81 X reg, enough said i guess i find that the extra lenght of a 6cyl helps on ploughing etc, depends on what you are planning to do, the perkins engines are a good reliable motor, the 1006 that mf 3095's had were bomb proof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert in NY Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 6cyd all the way i own operate a 6 pot jd 3040 2wd, dyno readout says 96hp (ment to be 90hp) and were i used to work had a 4cyd mf 3070 (92hp) 4wd, mine ran rings round the mf it was a 91 H reg and my jd was a much older 81 X reg, enough said i guess i find that the extra lenght of a 6cyl helps on ploughing etc, depends on what you are planning to do, the perkins engines are a good reliable motor, the 1006 that mf 3095's had were bomb proof I was thinking the 6 cylinder was the way to go also. I was just surprised to see the next hp jump up went to a 4 cylinder Sisu. I will be using the tractor for haying, tillage and planting. Haying wise it will have a 9' discbine and a NH 575 small square baler with thrower. Tillage wise it will have a MF 880 4-16 (if I buy a larger tractor I can add the 5th bottom back on) plow, 12' disc and 14' cultimulcher. And planting wise it will have a 4 row corn planter (maybe a 6 row if I find a good used one for cheap) and maybe a 12' International 5100 grain drill but I would rather use the smaller tractors for planting. Would the 6 cylinder be easier or harder on fuel compared to the 4 cylinder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremner_metallica Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 i would go for the perkins we have one in a fire engine used for pumping slurry and they are quite common were i live and seam to be really good engines really reliable and all round solid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudding Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 if you was comparing a MXU115 to a MXU110.........the 110 is the 4 pot turbo, makes the 6 pot MXU15 look like a slug don't be fooled by the more cylinders is better arguement, look at the torque figures etc more cylinders were better back when turbo's were new technology they sold a 5465 here last year out of our workshop, seems to go alright, only advise is remeber its a small tractor, if all its going to do is draft work/heavy pulling, buy the next series up........thats if you want the gearbox to last a lot of my customers brought massey in the last 3 years, the brought, 5465, 6465?, 6470, 6480, 7475, 7495, 7485, the 5400's weren't a popular series round here, the biggest loader we fitted was on a 7485, its primary job is loader work, and pulling a 18tonne feed out wagon MF is a good choice, there new tractors are nice, if i was to buy a tractor 100-200, it would either be MF or CNH puma.......the first 140 just sold here, that is a nice machine also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert in NY Posted March 29, 2008 Author Share Posted March 29, 2008 Jeebus! I know the Dollar is going down the tubes, but $13K for a replacement engine is a bit steep. Only one TD95D round these parts - upgrade from a 6600Q. Here's a pic I took one day when it arrived alongside the Jag I was passenger on. The engine ended up being $9k, then they added $1100 for a new turbo (just for the turbo, labor was extra), new oil pump was around $400 or so and pto was $1300. Then they sent the heads out for machine work and ....... Well, I was bent over fairly well by the time they got done screwing me. The best part is they offered to take my tractor for the bill and add the $7k I still owed on it to the $41k they quoted me for a TN85FA. Did I mention I could buy that same exact tractor for $6k less from the next state over, or the Case JX1095N for $1500 less 20 miles away (more horses, less money). They wouldn't cut me any breaks at all. So while I like blue I will never buy from this dealer again. The TDD line has been over here a couple years now but the JX twin has been here for 5 years or so. The dairy farms love the JX and the grain farms like them also for pto work and other utility jobs. They have a great reputation and a great price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert in NY Posted March 29, 2008 Author Share Posted March 29, 2008 if you was comparing a MXU115 to a MXU110.........the 110 is the 4 pot turbo, makes the 6 pot MXU15 look like a slug don't be fooled by the more cylinders is better arguement, look at the torque figures etc more cylinders were better back when turbo's were new technology they sold a 5465 here last year out of our workshop, seems to go alright, only advise is remeber its a small tractor, if all its going to do is draft work/heavy pulling, buy the next series up........thats if you want the gearbox to last a lot of my customers brought massey in the last 3 years, the brought, 5465, 6465?, 6470, 6480, 7475, 7495, 7485, the 5400's weren't a popular series round here, the biggest loader we fitted was on a 7485, its primary job is loader work, and pulling a 18tonne feed out wagon MF is a good choice, there new tractors are nice, if i was to buy a tractor 100-200, it would either be MF or CNH puma.......the first 140 just sold here, that is a nice machine also Hey there Puds This is why I ask these questions. I know others have more experience then I do so I appreciate what I can learn. Tillage wise it will see maybe 20-30 acres a year at most. If I expand my tillage operation (I don't see that happening) then a used Ford/NH 70 series Genesis will come into play. But this tractors main task will be haying and the most demanding draft task will be a 4 bottom 16" plow (MF 880) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPN Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I was thinking the 6 cylinder was the way to go also. I was just surprised to see the next hp jump up went to a 4 cylinder Sisu. I will be using the tractor for haying, tillage and planting. Haying wise it will have a 9' discbine and a NH 575 small square baler with thrower. Tillage wise it will have a MF 880 4-16 (if I buy a larger tractor I can add the 5th bottom back on) plow, 12' disc and 14' cultimulcher. And planting wise it will have a 4 row corn planter (maybe a 6 row if I find a good used one for cheap) and maybe a 12' International 5100 grain drill but I would rather use the smaller tractors for planting. Would the 6 cylinder be easier or harder on fuel compared to the 4 cylinder? Depends on the work you want doing. 7600 vs 7400 7610 vs 7810 7710 vs 7910 7740 vs 7840 TS110 vs TS115 The 4cyl turbo is tidier around the farmyard - great as a loader tractor The 6cyl is better on a plough (balance), or on a forage harvester (lugging power). On fuel it shouldn't make much difference - there is 10kW in any litre of diesel. Plus, the new NH tractors are streets ahead of anything else on fuel consumption, and they will run on locally grown biodiesel Please don't change Bob. You are one of us. You don't want to go to the Dark Side, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPN Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 If I expand my tillage operation (I don't see that happening) then a used Ford/NH 70 series Genesis will come into play. Have you seen the price of wheat lately? (and I'd go for a 60 series over a 70 series any day - Basildon built is better built! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert in NY Posted March 29, 2008 Author Share Posted March 29, 2008 Have you seen the price of wheat lately? (and I'd go for a 60 series over a 70 series any day - Basildon built is better built! ) Well, I easily make more money per acre with grapes. I want to expand into more small fruits where the fields will be turned over every 5 years roughly. I also want to keep haying (for some reason I like it), so my field crops are only for rotation purposes. I try to keep my fields in use for as long as I can. Corn prices are up here as well as wheat but fuel is almost 3 times what it was 2 years ago. So working ground every year and trucking crop 20 miles (nearest elevator) soaks up a lot of profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert in NY Posted March 29, 2008 Author Share Posted March 29, 2008 I will add, I am always going to be a Ford/NH guy but my current feelings for my NH dealer lead me to want to see them run into the ground or at least sold to someone who will improve the dealership. Very few people deal with them and the guys who do are because they are close or because of the one salesman (he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet). The store manager is an idiot and no one likes him (well, he is high on himself so one person likes him ) The Genesis line has a great reputation over here. Plus it is a beautiful tractor. I like the 60 series also but have wanted a 8770-8970 for as long as I can remember. Once the store manager and parts manager are replaced at my local NH dealer they will be given the chance to earn my business back but until that happens I am going to support the people who I trust, will support me and will provide me with the service and equipment I need. I am tired of being taken advantage of just because of being loyal to blue paint. I can get the same tractor in red so why put up with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I would like to point out your comparing 4 and 6cyl models of other makes but thing have to look at with the massey is one engine is a perkins other is sisu and you just cant compare the two sisu is miles ahead in torque back-up, fuel consumption and just alot nicer to run. Normaly i would reccomend a 6cyl for tillage work as normaly hang on for longer but i must say modern day perkins are c**p go sisu are by far ahead on everything and you will never regret having 4cyl for a varied amount jobs if need be stick a few extra weights on the front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav836 Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I hate to agree with the penguiny one above but I wouldn't entertain a Perkins engine anymore, we had a McCormick MC135 with one in where I was working last year and it was completely gutless, on transport you were forever up and down the gears, it wouldn't handle the 4m power harrow at all in 1000rpm PTO speed, the NH TS135A was running rings around it all the time. If I had the choice I'd go for the SISU 4 pot motor over it, they have a very good rating here with no major problems to speak of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudding Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 good to see there are a few TDD and JX floating round in the world they sold one or two here, the JX95 they sold here the dealer never seems to see, they all say its bolted together rather ruffly, but they are built on a tractor which I know is solid they had the FIAT 66s gearbox, engines and axles,.....they weren't the prettiest tractor, but they kept going, i used to drive a 70-66DTs, i think in 6000hours, it did a diff seal, and a few rollpins in the shuttle lever..... that series of tractor in its day, the biggest model was the 80-66, then the turks, bolted a turbo on and started selling them as 95-66's.....i guess when they figured the tractor could handle the hp.......the JX95 and TD95D emerged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPN Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 the NH TS135A was running rings around it all the time. It's a Basildon thing! Get used to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdc Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I think the 4/6 cylinder things is psychological - the 4 cyl Sisu is ( in my experience) probably a better engine than the Perkins 6 cyl. but convincing people is another matter. The difference in wheelbase is negligible, probably only a few cms. I bet if you have a diesel car it produces over 100 hp on 4 cyls - why not expect a 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow legs Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 the 4 maybe a good buy then \ as for the McCormicks i wouldnt have one if i was given one (well i would if it was free and i would sell it) there a c**p tractor, drove a couple 4 and 6 pot, hated them, a 6 pot in one surly cant count for comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nashmach Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Jeebus! I know the Dollar is going down the tubes, but $13K for a replacement engine is a bit steep. Only one TD95D round these parts - upgrade from a 6600Q. Here's a pic I took one day when it arrived alongside the Jag I was passenger on. Believe it or not Stan I think that one was on the ploughing match circuit with James F's neighbour and sometimes boss - has she been traded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allis8550 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I personally would chose the 6cyl Perkins, but then I'm biased in already having a Massey with a six cylinder engine. Having said that , however, a mate of mine has a twelve month old 6470 with a Sisu engine and he loves it. He reckons last harvest time it used half the deisel of the JD it replaced, and in these days that can't be bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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