Tracks V Tyres

[neilw]

Apart from the HP, and the obvious improved traction, is the only advantage of a tracked tractor to a wheeled tractor the reduced ground compaction??

If so, would floatation tyres make much of a difference comparing something like a 300hp Cat challenger to a 300hp Fendt 930, or the bigger 936???

Sorry if im showing my ignorance.....

[BC]

Certainly I think the reduced ground compaction would be a major advantage but I'm not too sure of others. Too good a question for me  to answer and I too am interested to see what other members on here come up with ;)

[archbarch]

manufacturers use reduced compaction advantage when marketing machines however if you look at most modern tracked machines the idlers are only covering the centre of the track, therefore the width of the track is not carrying the load, metal tracks had no give in them so they would spread the load and increase traction area, i do know early Challengers used to spin in tracks in tough going.I used to drive a Track Marshall 155 Personally i think rubber tracks are a gimmick anyone who has experience of metal tracks would agree.

As for flotation tyres or terras well ive used em dont like em, they make a tractor look good but traction is lost especially when wet as they tend to create drag, they also give final drives some stick.

Your better off having decent tyres with the right pressures, and only work on the land when the land is fit to travel on a mix of common sense and skill, not much of that in farming nowadays.

[catkom3]

I don't know the answere,but this makes interesting veiwing, 'specially when the Case driver takes his foot off the clutch

http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,398819147.aspx

Regards

Joe.

[Deere-est]

It's a great question which used to come down to like you say, traction and compaction. Since their more widespread use though, tracks have brought up many more considerations both for and against their arguement. At college we did a study into pros and cons at 30hp. A 30hp tractor would pull two furrows but a crawler of the same rating would pull three. Tracks can make more efficient the horsepower of a tractor. However (stx aside) headland compaction can be higher,  range of impliments lower due to side to side forces when turning, working across slopes can result in crabbing thus track slip. Working wet ground can be rendered impossible. Replacement tracks can cost huge amounts of money (especially stx!).

Then the floatation tyre option has it's drawbacks too, the wider the tyre the more wieght falls on the sidewalls and outside tread than in the centre. Working life due to load bearing can be short. Downtime of punctures.

If you ask me, a 140 - 200hp range of crawlers is long overdue.

Initial cost of machinery throws in a big consideration.

The positives reflect the opposites in most of the above.

[neilw]

Another consideration is road work, pulling grain trailers and the like. Surely this cant be economically viable with tracks??

[archbarch]

I think Fendt are going in the right direction with the Trisix.  

it does annoy me when rubber tracked crawlers get used in parts of the country where soil conditions are too harsh ie, Norfolk where sandy soils full of flint just cut tracks and idlers to pieces in no time and the same farmers are having a hard time.

Im not sure now but in the late 80s my old boss reckoned 90% of tractors being sold were under tyred,

thats one thing about buying a new Unimog it doesnt come with wheels so you have to specify what you want.

Dual wheels havent been mentioned but so many people put them on and never adjust tyre pressures so the full weight of the tractor is still on the main wheels not the duals. My old boss told me never to do it with a gauge but to drive in the field and adjust according to tread pattern.

[Smithy140]

I think that video says it all really. but on the other hand i can only see the benefit of tracks on 200hp+ tractors as thay weigh more.

[Jez]

Also with combines the large driver for tracks is transport width.

However, I am only talking combines here you increase the load on the rear axle by a considerable amount.

I know that uk sales of big wheeled and trAcked machines are almost 50:50.

More wheeled now but still some tracks.

[Kiwi6920]

Personaly i am a track man, give me a cat trator to work a hill paddock any day, the long track farme gives good traction, the older machines sit low with a realy good COG (center of gravity) only wheeled tractor id take over a cat is a county with rear duals,

On flat if you set your air presures correct a wheeled tractor will out pull tracks,

[Deere-est]

Another consideration is road work, pulling grain trailers and the like. Surely this cant be economically viable with tracks??

Crawlers arn't made for road work of any kind. Anyone using them in this way would just be daft.

[neilw]

So apart from Tillage, ploughing, general heavy land work, what else can a tracked tractor be used for?? Seems to be a big investment for a unit you cant use for spraying, spreading, or any road haulage work?? Might be useful at harvest with a grain chaser though, save the compaction of the tractors and trailers, and possibly lorries over the ground??

[Jez]

Go to www.kinze.com and navigate to the wagon section then the 1050 model and find the feature section.

In there you will find the undercarriage options where the tracks are loacated.

[MODELFARMER]

Tracks vs wide tyres

Think of 2 10 ton machines

One tracks and one wide wheels

Drive up a field say along tramlines just for example, which machine tramps more ground? the tracks stay within the tramlines but the wide wheels tramp left and right, so for compaction tracks must win?

for grip, well tracks under pulling load say a cultivator,

Tracks tend to point load, when pulling this is towards the rear, as is for tyres, but with wide back tyres you are applying pressure across the width right at the rear, bu with track you are then losing your advantage as the whole track forward of the rear drive is lighter under pulling,

Anyone follow that?? 

[stewart7225]

Tracks will ride better over rough ground especially if it has been hilled or furrowed or something similar because the idlers will help support some weight in the middle reducing the see-saw motion.

Tracks will put more power to the ground, some people feel that they will apply enough extra power that they can buy a size smaller track tractor than a wheel tractor to do the same job. 

Deere-est, you say that working wet ground can be impossible with tracks, why do you say this?  I know it can be with John Deeres friction drive systen (not sure why system quadtracs have?) but with Challengers positive drive inside lug system there is no slippage.  Look at the underside of the top part of the track http://www.challenger-ag.com/agco/Challenger/ChallengerNA/TrackedTractors/MT700CCHAL08_1612Full03.jpg 

Tracked tractors with 3-pt booms have become popular sprayer for stubble, and early season crop spraying because when its wet, it wont sink like a self propelled sprayer or a wheeled tractor.

You can use them for some road work but to much and your just wearing out an expensive set of tracks for no reason.  Most farms with tracked tractors still have at least one wheeled tractor (at least over here)

Not sure if I actually answered any questions but i tried

[Jez]

Good point ricky but you can cure this with correct ballasting......

I have watched a customer with a 9630T who was ready to throw the machine back as it would not pull as well as his old one, it was using more fuel, was not comfy to drive.

Removed some weight from here, put it overthrre and bob is you mothers brother, one Moore happy customer.

[neilw]

I get what you mean, but surely in terms of versatility wheels are better, the investment needed for a tracked tractor is massive, are the returns that reduced ground compaction and the like bring really that big?? Im not anti - tracks by the way!!

[ihatepoundland]

Great question. I think there is quite a lot of bias out there from various manufacturers maybe being selective with some of their facts and figures. I read one test a while back that I think said twin tracks were better that singles on an artic, but that correctly aired (reasonably wide) duals would be the better balance as they don't create the same high point loads on the soil as twin tracks. But if you can't get to the field without using roads, duals are going to be a non starter. How important is the road wear issue, I can't imagine many 400hp machines, tracked or wheel being best employed on long road runs?

Something to read;

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/eng8171

[neilw]

The road use is small to be fair, mainly at harvest when grain hauling. But what about things like crop spraying, fertiliser spreading, baling etc. is a machine that can only be used for tillage, sub soiling, seeding etc going to be a viable proposition against a wheeled tractor that can do pretty much anything? It seems like an awful lot of money on a specific unit to do a specific job. But then, thats exactly what you do with a combine harvester, isn't it....

[Deere-est]

You can do pre-emergence spraying and fertiliser spreading, or even pre-cultivation compound/lime spreading. From I would say February onwards though you wouldn't be able to do anything at all due to the hieght of the crop. The people in our area running Challengers and STX's, Nial do so with at least 4000ac to put infront of them. Wiltshire has many many tracklayers and very very few wheeld artics if any at all anymore. Mainly due to transport width.

Tracks will put more power to the ground, some people feel that they will apply enough extra power that they can buy a size smaller track tractor than a wheel tractor to do the same job.

This is what I agree with and what we found with our small scale study. That's why I think smaller crawlers would sell well to farms of smaller acerage.

Deere-est, you say that working wet ground can be impossible with tracks, why do you say this?  I know it can be with John Deeres friction drive systen (not sure why system quadtracs have?) but with Challengers positive drive inside lug system there is no slippage.  Look at the underside of the top part of the track http://www.challenger-ag.com/agco/Challenger/ChallengerNA/TrackedTractors/MT700CCHAL08_1612Full03.jpg 

From what I have read over the years and seen in footage and the like a track puts power to the ground via it's surface area whereas a tyre it is through sheer grip and cleat depth. If you had say 3 inches of wet chopped straw/mixed with a first pass from a cultivator/harrow this would give a very loose surface for the track to bite into. A tyre would bite in firther than this and find the grip, it would still suffer slipage but not as much as a track possibly could. This would depend on the type of soil of course and the a farmer/cpntractor would put this in his list of considerations aswell as the working window of wetaher available to him in which to use such machinery. The main benefit being (wheeled or tracked) that a 400hp tractor doesn't need as much time to cover the gound as a smaller machine. As one contractor here in Wiltshire found though, speeding ahead with 4000ac of cultivating followed by rain left the farmer with a second bill for a second pass before he could put his Horsch drill into the ground!  [

Tracks will ride better over rough ground especially if it has been hilled or furrowed or something similar because the idlers will help support some weight in the middle reducing the see-saw motion.

Although hard ground is very uncomfortable for the driver as I found out in a Quadtrac. .. .  it's was like riding a wooden plank with wheels down a cobbled street! 

[archbarch]

On hard ground tracks make the ride very uncomfortable i would say rubber is more of a bone shaker than metal, i would hate to be stuck on a Quadtrac day after day.

Im not sure how manufacturers would stand with warranties for road work 

[neilw]

On balance then, probably best to sacrifice one of my two higher HP tractors for something like a challenger, thus having the tracked tractor to be used as and when, and a standard high HP tractor for the rest of the time. To try and counter balance the extra cost, maybe try and obtain some more contract work for the Challenger??

[Deere-est]

You could easily run a Challenger if it did all your cultivations and subsoiling if you were to rotate the subsoiling a small amount each year (too much too often reverses the good effects of min till) and like you say, offer a service with it to other farmers through the spring planting period and if time allows, around your own work.

[ploughmaster]

On hard ground tracks make the ride very uncomfortable i would say rubber is more of a bone shaker than metal,

They certainly used to be, but most of the newer machines have airbag suspension which makes the ride much more tolerable - one exception so far being the Quadtrac.

i would hate to be stuck on a Quadtrac day after day.

It isn't a pleasant experience, particularly on dry, hard going.  With 5 idler wheels to each track, you feel every bump and clod/stone 10 times

As to reducing compaction, a Quadtrac 535 weighs in at 25 tonnes with a full fuel tank, so you can put it on tracks, super singles, dual or triple wheels, it will still paddle the land down like turnpike road. 

Having spent a couple of seasons on one, I am not their greatest fan.  For a machine with nearly 550hp on tap, its pulling ability was not that outstanding (I think a lot of the power is used hauling the tractor about!).  You could easily use most of the 940litre fuel load in a 16 hour day, and track replacement at around £5000 each (they will last anywhere from 2500 to 4000 hours depending on soil type and usage), can make them a costly machine to run.  In my opinion the only job they are good at is impressing the neighbours (at which they are unsurpassed).