UH Debate that sprung from the MF590 4wd review topic

[MB Trac]

Although I'm not a big massey fan I think this is a really good debate. I think at the end of the day it comes down to selling for UH. Whoever carries out their marketing research just sees what mass manufacturers are not producing and smaller operators such as DBP, Brian Norman etc are producing and then try reduce the price and improve the quality and get the item to market as quickly as possible. Its en ethical debate as I agree they should get their own ideas for items rather than copy and paste. But these items sell so they will continue to do so.

I think it will be the case if that if a small model maker produces something that isn't out there and the item is very popular then they are getting a free idea of what to produce. I don't understand how they could make the 1200 if Brian Norman already had the license to make it?

Inevitably they are trying to eliminate the competition both small and large which I do not agree with. I like to collect models but this has become impossible now you have a lot of money to spend as new items are almost appearing every week at an average price of £35 per item.

Perhaps they are also targeting the conversions and scratch builds that we see on here if you take adding duels etc

[Kiwi6920]

Hiw hard are UH hitting the converisonst/scratch builders pocket now? they seam to be pumping things out faster than a slurry tanker can!! ros must also be making a small dent......

[Tractorman810]

a convo guy will always do / find something different to do, can turn stuff round quick . swap stuff quick to unlike uh, so they can always make a profit somewhere on something.

uh just brush them out of the way later on once up to speed,

another good example is the german market, traditionaly the german  convo guys did a lot of good self made soil kit, harrows rollers ect, look what uh are into now in a big way :

you could call me cynical with my views of uh, but in my eyes since they got established they have become very quick on picking up on what people want,

[MB Trac]

They only thing about making scratch and conversions is that if its a good idea they will take the idea and pump them out. I dont think it comes down to money as regards the conversion/ scratch builder being able to sell, its more their idea is profiteered on by mass production and quick turn around rather than these people getting their own ideas. 

[nick a]

a convo guy will always do / find something different to do, can turn stuff round quick . swap stuff quick to unlike uh, so they can always make a profit somewhere on something.

uh just brush them out of the way later on once up to speed,

another good example is the german market, traditionaly the german  convo guys did a lot of good self made soil kit, harrows rollers ect, look what uh are into now in a big way :

you could call me cynical with my views of uh, but in my eyes since they got established they have become very quick on picking up on what people want,

  i have collected brian norman tractors from day one and love the mf1200 model. i will also get the new uh version in my eyes the uh models shouldnt affect brian norman values as some collectors if finances permit would want both anyway. manufacturers are pumping out new releases at a very healthy rate  this gives collectors excellent choices- how many collectors actually collect every single item  produced anyway?. financial side alone ill only collect what appeals to me and not want every single item for the sake of collecting them. each and everybody to their own the main point is it is great to have the choice. myself been collecting a long time now and their was never this amazing choice available years gone by. happy collecting everybody.

[An Interested Spectator]

Hiw hard are UH hitting the converisonst/scratch builders pocket now? they seam to be pumping things out faster than a slurry tanker can!! ros must also be making a small dent......

Ros are a good example of a large maker going out and doing something different, that nobody else was doing, and making a good success of it.

[allis8550]

I think TM810 has hit it exactly on the head there, "UH have become very quick at picking up on what people want". That's what the're in business for , to produce what people want and hopefully turn a profit along the way. Perhaps some other manufacturers have lost sight of this principle of business over the years, also we must remember, any manufacturer cannot these days, make anything without the co-operation of the OEM's. Presumably MF have encouraged UH in the making of the 135, 590 and 1200 models, in the interests of good publicity, and they will be availible from MF dealers in the sought after "Dealer Boxes"

    Look through Warner Hall,s articles in Model Tractor mag and you realise all the lost opportunities that Britains have missed by not taking up his suggestions over the years, if they had gone along with just some of them , then perhaps UH would not even have got a foot in the door.

[MB Trac]

They have made some good stuff but it is more for the European market, whereas no one has produced a good quality 6 row beet harvester or potato harvester and I have to criticize some of the UH functionality as compared with better functionality from ROS and really strong models to boot. I think if they made a top quality FX60 or really nice UK or Irish silage trailer that would really suit or a really nice slurry tanker such as a Hi Spec or Major with a nice injection system and even a top quality new Holland round baler with good functionality.

[Paul Palmer]

what about all the stuff only uh have made yes some classics they release have been done by others but not all by a long way, and what about the cargo trailer,power harrow,grimme universal.  i will buy any make,britains ros norscot whatever, but you cant have it all your own way all these companys are there for profit, thats buisness, i didnt hear anyone complain when they brought out  the claas models or the mf 5480,8690,it has to be personal preference, leyland, ih would sell but i think in a lot lower numbers than the other so called big four

[Tractorman810]

They have made some good stuff but it is more for the European market,

they have to sadly ,no bussiness would make a living just on uk based stuff at the end of the day, i must say i saw a smaller dangerfiled spreader a while back, was well used and no decals but seeing the uh one has told me what it was, same colours,

yes root stuff is needed, and not a 6 row one, i understand they make what the oem say, they want big flagship, but they are rare and hard to find in real life for most people

[Rick]

I think TM810 has hit it exactly on the head there, "UH have become very quick at picking up on what people want". That's what the're in business for , to produce what people want and hopefully turn a profit along the way. Perhaps some other manufacturers have lost sight of this principle of business over the years, also we must remember, any manufacturer cannot these days, make anything without the co-operation of the OEM's. Presumably MF have encouraged UH in the making of the 135, 590 and 1200 models, in the interests of good publicity, and they will be availible from MF dealers in the sought after "Dealer Boxes"

    Look through Warner Hall,s articles in Model Tractor mag and you realise all the lost opportunities that Britains have missed by not taking up his suggestions over the years, if they had gone along with just some of them , then perhaps UH would not even have got a foot in the door.

I think Bill W would tell you Britains cant miss what they never had and RC2/Britains have not had the license to do agco stuff or other brands besides Deere and Case...........I wouldnt mind seeing a thread with the concept  "is there really a "Britains" anymore or just a shadow of RC2???

[archbarch]

this is an interesting discussion, its not just uh its all model manufacturers, its great to have the choice but sometimes the choice can actually put me off take the MB Trac releases of late a variety in the range would surely be better than variety in model manufacturer.

The only thing i like about this MF590 is the scale i wish other manufacturers would do the same.

As for working with the OEMs surely it would be in there interest to have more variety not loads of versions of one model.

[MB Trac]

Just on the MB Trac release. Weise went so far with the detail and then ruined perfection by not adding a drawbar!! The main purpose was high speed haulage at the time. How difficult would it have been to make a nice drawbar to allow implements to be attached.

My main concern is the rate of production of models. I know of several collectors who now mabye buy one or 2 pieces in two to three months as the cost is too high and volume is too high. For instance if you really wanted a particular model, it comes out and you buy it, then a similar model appears two weeks later which was unannounced earlier in the year now you have to layout another €50+ to get the one you may have preffered to begin with.

[Andy]

UH certainly realise there is a huge market for british classics. The recent Nuffield announcement I think clarifies that they certainly wont be concentrating on just the main OEM's.

I have no problem with UH producing all of these models but what disappoints me is the sheer production saturation each model achieves. I know everyone has their own collecting perceptions in terms of the reasons for buying models, but with me, I find it disappointing that a model such as the Doe, with incredible exclusive heritage can be marketed at £100+ on release but now, if your eyes are open, you will get change from £50 for one.

I know UH will get their break even on it and possible profit regardless of the behaviour of the consumer market, but I feel they are not doing the hobby any favours by churning out one item after another before the dust has settled on the previous one. With production runs of several thousand per item, there is a huge amount of models coming into the market, far more than what's really needed in my opinion.

The MF1200 will retail at £39.99, and I expect 50% will probably sell at that giving UH and distributers a nice tidy profit but then in 12 months time I would not bet against you being able to pick one up for £25 or less. Yes you have a great model on the shelf but I'd much rather buy a UH model (that has 50% less volume produced), pay £39.99 happily and 12 months down the line be staring at an item that sells on the market for £49.99+. It then does justice to the model, the collector, and the hobby.

As has been mentioned about Corgi lorries, I predict that in the not too distant future, this UH production model will probably implode on itself. I think they are currently well supported by OEM dealer network purchases but inevitably, they will continue increasing the prices of the items to a point where the OEMs will either refuse the price, decrease the numbers ordered or will not order. They can still take their license cut anyway. This then leaves UH with a big fat warehouse full of big fat models that they cannot shift. UH direct outlet shopping, here we come!

[MB Trac]

I would agree with what Andy has said however I reckon the actual mark up on the models will be high as production of such quantities will be relatively cheap per unit as costs in China are cheap overall in high volume production.

[archbarch]

i certainly dont trust UH with the so called limited edition models the Valtra C cow pattern was meant to be limited?

[An Interested Spectator]

Putting "my money where my mouth is" for a moment. Here's a challange to UH.

One of the few markets in the world that is steady/growing in sub 90hp tractors is the US. Taking MF alone they currently have 5 ranges of tractor under 90hp. So give us a 1500, 1600, 500, 2600 or 3600. I am sure a modern compact would get "eaten up" in the UK and Europe, and would give an entry to a big old market in the US.

Hey, but you know they (and MF) would not be that brave.

[archbarch]

i suppose one problem maybe trade tariffs that may exist? EU taxes/ restrictions afterall the EU is not such a free market place to countries that are not members

[Rick]

UH certainly realise there is a huge market for british classics. The recent Nuffield announcement I think clarifies that they certainly wont be concentrating on just the main OEM's.

I have no problem with UH producing all of these models but what disappoints me is the sheer production saturation each model achieves. I know everyone has their own collecting perceptions in terms of the reasons for buying models, but with me, I find it disappointing that a model such as the Doe, with incredible exclusive heritage can be marketed at £100+ on release but now, if your eyes are open, you will get change from £50 for one.

I know UH will get their break even on it and possible profit regardless of the behaviour of the consumer market, but I feel they are not doing the hobby any favours by churning out one item after another before the dust has settled on the previous one. With production runs of several thousand per item, there is a huge amount of models coming into the market, far more than what's really needed in my opinion.

The MF1200 will retail at £39.99, and I expect 50% will probably sell at that giving UH and distributers a nice tidy profit but then in 12 months time I would not bet against you being able to pick one up for £25 or less. Yes you have a great model on the shelf but I'd much rather buy a UH model (that has 50% less volume produced), pay £39.99 happily and 12 months down the line be staring at an item that sells on the market for £49.99+. It then does justice to the model, the collector, and the hobby.

As has been mentioned about Corgi lorries, I predict that in the not too distant future, this UH production model will probably implode on itself. I think they are currently well supported by OEM dealer network purchases but inevitably, they will continue increasing the prices of the items to a point where the OEMs will either refuse the price, decrease the numbers ordered or will not order. They can still take their license cut anyway. This then leaves UH with a big fat warehouse full of big fat models that they cannot shift. UH direct outlet shopping, here we come!

I think what is significant here is that Andy has made an effort to clearly state his philosophy of collecting and therefore his approach makes a lot of sense.  Yet what about the young lad who is mowing grass in the neighborhood to raise money for his collection which is more of a philosophy of adding to his layout or display?  Will he not be more excited that the price has dropped within a range that meets his financial position?  Does it not benefit him that the market does get "saturated" so it drives the price down for the young lad and gives him an opportunity to own more and more items? 

My personal philosophy is more like Andy's because I see a lot of my current collecting as an investment so I want more limits.......

[Tractorman810]

prob is rick when you limit the numbers made the cost goes up more ,look at certain limited editions now, like say the white mf, silly money now

ok you may be talking say a run of 20000 mf1200 sets, but once they have sold it will just rocket the price up of any you own, thats not what uh are about, they do what they can from each mould, we dont conplain about rc2 doing it, siku, or even ertls many rehashs of the chassis, why should we over uh