tried and tested methods.....

[neilw]

For all the talk of pans, compactions, reduced traffic, min till etc, how many smaller scale farmers/contractors are using discs, standard wheels, not tracks or lgp tyres and kit of that ilk and still getting respectable harvest results??

Is it still possible not to spend thousands on the latest kit and get decent returns??

[Murray]

lad next to me works a kv power harrow and an accord drill on top. the field gets dressed with a kverneland triple k before the seeder. he gets good ton to the acre. but its the best grun in the county

[robbo]

Hi Neilw

There has been some discussion on your recent threads about compaction and pans and I have found a photo that seems to illustrate the point, I will apologise in advance but this photo is "borrowed" from http://www.bensagriphotos.co.uk/

If you look at the bottom of the furrow you will see the "smear" that the plough has caused, this leads to an impermeable layer. Almost all ground engaging equipment can cause this, rotavators were always one of the worst but anything that works at a constant depth can have this problem.

Spring tine harrows were always quite good at puncturing the pan as they vibrate in the soil and chip into the pan.

Our forefathers weren't all that bad at designing cultivation equipment but they seem to have been pushed into the background by new fads. I think I have said before that a power harrow is used to beat the ground into submission, it doesn't create a tilth, it just makes smaller clods. :-X :-X

[Paul Palmer]

neil, the contractor i work for part time  is conventional,the land he works down here in devon does not lean itself to min till,it was tried, so for wheat the ground is ploughed,cultivated twice drilled then rolled,for maize ground ,it is ploughed,power harrowed then drilled,standard wheeled 4 fendts 1 mf and 1 jd tractor,no tracks ,still achieve good results yield wise

[MODELFARMER]

We plough

powerharrow 1 pass amazone drill

Sow fert

cambridge roll

and watch grow,

We have a shakerator for doing headlands in septermber after harvest but thats it oh and any hollows that may ly in a puddle over winter.

Last year we had in winter wheat for the 3rd year in a row in 1 field still made 4tonne to the acre!!!!!

spring barley we average 1.5 - 2 tonne to the acre

oh and we have both our 6420s + 6930 deere on 540 wide tyres no floats or anything, though i'd like 650's for sowing

[Rick]

Three critical issues:  location, location location......in the NW USA  which is flat and valleys the wind would blow so much top soil away if we plowed everhthing.  So we use a dics and cultivator that look like the old spring tooth....Our winter winds are terrible....

[neilw]

Robbo - Cheers for that, illustrated the point nicely!!

Do Pans stop crops growing or just reduce their potential

Nice to see there is still plenty of Wheeled work going on, and a few passes before crops are sown!!!

[Lord Ferguson]

what a blooming interesting topic... great question NielW..

I guess (must point out that I am a fruiterer... not a farmer) all this min-til is a balance of yield v cultivation COST more than anything...

What I mean is.. the old 'conventional methods' of narrow wheels, plough and work down with a cultivator, roll etc. are more costly per man hour/fuel hour than big new heavy machines (that have to have floats to stop them creating compaction) that rip over the land once and at speed.  \

[neilw]

cost is (pretty much) the be all and end all of everything, which got me thinking, if preparing your field with a topdown is going to maximise your yield, is that yield increase going to be big enough to cover the cost of the machine in the first place, when a set of heavy discs (or similar..) will do the job.

For all the challengers and tracked machines about, it does seem there are still loads of "standard" tractors about, using older kit and still producing results...

Just a casual observervation from what I have seen, read, and heard about via the media, internet etc...

I work in customer service so am looking at the subject as a complete outsider!!!

[Light Land]

good topic this.

Another area not talked about yet is burning stubbles.With a clean burn off you only need a very basic set of tillage implerments.

[Tractorman810]

very true ol, i can remember them stubble burning when younger,

we always ploughed, power harrowed then drilled, occasionaly they rolled, not much though, that was 20 odd years back now, and last visit i made that way they all seemed to be doing the same, just bigger ploughs and drills ,not many tracks arround that imediate area but other parts do use the big min till stuff

[Lord Ferguson]

burning was banned here Ol many years ago now... are you still allowed to then  

[nashmach]

We are very conventional or stuck in the past some might say!

Plough with a conventional plough.

2/3 runs with an ageing Dutch harrow

Run on headlands with a Triple K

Sow with a MF 30

Dutch Harrow end runs

Spread fert with Vicon spreader

Flat roll

Cost is not much more than you would think apart from labour as our depreciation is virtually zero if not appreciation

[archbarch]

i know of a large farm over 1000 acres of cereals hasnt got a drill, everything is broadcast, harrowed and rolled, seedbeds are prepared mainly with springtines after discing or chisel ploughing. They get better yields than most neighbouring farms.

Most modern equipment is expensive and needs high HP to operate, some farmers make the job more expensive than it needs to be, most machinery is the must have justified by experts.

[Light Land]

burning was banned here Ol many years ago now... are you still allowed to then

Yes NZ and Aussie still are allowed to burn as are Canada and to a lesser extent Denmark.

Worked with a lad who's old boy was growing wheat after wheat on heavy land in Denmark last year,he was saying they burn a few bales in every paddock and just let the fire spread,the crops are beter they thought.

Burning stubbles removes alot less organic mater than you might think Marky.Exp if theres abit of green in the base of the stubble.

Burning stubble in NZ for the older generations of farmers would be like ploughing in the Fens I'd of thought.

Not all stubble burns well mind,so in the coruse of a cropping cycle some stubble is mixed into the ground along with a short term grass ley in the cropping cycle to improve soil structure and feed livestock,the soil improves faster than ploughing and power harrowing to bury each years trash/stubble on the easy working arable soils in NZ.

PC maddness has cost farmers a $$$fortune$$$ by not letting them clean up after harvest by letting them put a speedy fire across there unwanted stubbles.

[neilw]

Surely the tracks on a tracked tractor would scuff the headlands up, unless you have a GPS system and are able to miss out every other bout...?