James Joe Dewar Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 A new electric tractor comeing soon based on a JCB 4000 series, With no gearbox and lighter that a diesel version. https://www.farm-connexion.com/2024/02/23/seederal-devoile-son-premier-tracteur-electriqueRegards Joe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil phoenix Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 JCB seem to be progressing nicely with their hydrogen engines, thats the way forward, not electric. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justy 46 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Agreed. They recon car dealerships will be littered with secondhand electric cars down the line. Uncertainty about car batteries lasting and expensive replacement batteries when warranties expire will have buyers very concerned over purchasing. New ones are too expensive.. I know petrol and diesel will be phased out in time.. But used electric cars may be a big problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractorman810 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 bmw are also ditching the full electric route and heavily investing in hydrogen as well, its basically nothing more that a different fuel tank,which can fit the current places , and a top end change of the engine, for gas injectors rather than liquid, so very little investment in new parts, as the bottom end of the engine and rest of the parts are all standard on the market bits. apparently there is a company setting up a hydrogen plant and refuling stations down this way for a big utillity company,not us ,who run 6000 odd vans, as they are going that way in a partnership with ford . electric will have its place, prob for short distance commuters moped’s ,even motorbikes ?? but for most people ,commercials and construction hydrogen is the only decent way forward giving ranges we need ,a quick fill up when empty and work times 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Joe Dewar Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 Far easier to get a refill of Hydrogen, Than wait at the roadside for some assistance from someone with a Diesel powered generator to recharge your dead batteries, Electric vehicles are absolute lunacy, But these day's Lithium is an awful lots easier and cheaper to extract than oil,!! Regards Joe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPN Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I met one of the World's leading hydrogen scientists at a conference a few years ago and he said that "the hydrogen economy is 20 years away, and it always will be". The technical issues and the costs around hydrogen infrastructure mean that although it appears to be a brilliant solution, it will never be practical or economical. There are a lot of people investing big money in trying to make hydrogen work for various uses, and while there is an outside chance that JCB might be able to create a business case for their heavier equipment, for most/all of the other uses it will turn out to be a complete waste of time, money and effort. As Sean pointed out, BMW have been trying to make hydrogen work for the last 35 years (https://www.bmwgroup-classic.com/en/history/hydrogen.html) and they have a fleet of iX5 mules running on hydrogen as a big trial at the moment, but they are doing this seperate to their work on EVs, and it lots of ways it is throwing good money after bad. BMW are not ditching the full electric route. Their main factory in Munich will be 100% EVs by 2027 and their other plants are also scaling up production of EVs, starting with the new iX3 later this year. I'm already saving up to buy a Neue Klasse when it is released in 2026. This is a real throwback to the proper BMWs of my younger days (2002/E21 3 series/E30 3 series) https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/bmws-flagship-factory-will-only-make-electric-cars-2027 There will no scattering of electric batteries because the batteries will be the most valuable part of the car. They will be in demand both for recycling of the materials into new batteries, for upgrading old ICE vehicles to EV power, and for use at home to power the house. If you have solar panels and a small wind turbine charging a battery then you can very quickly reduce your electricity bill to almost nothing. There's already a huge market for used batteries out of Norway. They have a unique combination of very high uptake of EVs together with very slippery roads in winter, so lots and lots of used batteries available for upgrading other vehicles. https://www.newelectric.nl/en/ Hydrogen, however, is 20 years away, and always will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justy 46 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I think Toyotas current partnership with BMW will have a big part to play considering Toyota are also working hard on hydrogen powered cars.. Mazda have left the Ford partnership and are now with Toyota also... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractorman810 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 the hardest bit of hydrogen i recon is making it, the project down here is a fair size, tanks being installed in yards, all underground, new tankers to transport it from the main depot to the sites, and 6000 odd vans being made. clearly they think its possible to be investing in it. our lot are sadly going leccy, nothing on the market yet that can deal with the distances we do, and more importantly the payload we need to carry all the kit,the best so far is the e-transit, but thats only 125 miles loaded they recon, and the load is only 300kg, which is barely enough to carry the roadworks guarding and barriers we need, let alone the items to build the network ,(current derv ones are 1200kg ish with the racking fitted) .theres talk of bare bodys in the back, but then we can not secure the loads properly or the expensive items we have like testers and splicers .the guys with the current ones (vauxhal varios,175kw) are constantly limited due to mileage limits, they all seem to be stuck in charging stations or queues for one. i know at present i can not have a leccy car at home ,as the network and substation that feeds the area can not cope with any more ,cables are to small to the houses and in between, so a huge capital expenditure to get it done . i think hydrogen will work, but again its outlay to get a network . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil phoenix Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Personally I think the west has engineered a huge energy crisis of its own making. Joe Biden's "New green deal" is unworkable nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPN Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Toyota are so far behind in the EV game that they are guaranteed to be bankrupt within a few years as they will be rapidly losing market share at the same time they need the revenues to build out new EV manufacturing plants. The two EVs they are selling at the moment are made in China by BYD. There are two insurmountable problems with hydrogen. 1) It is the smallest atom. Who remembers learning the Periodic Table of Elements in school? Hydrogen, Helium, Lithium, Berillium, Boron, Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Etc. This means you straight away have a problem finding a material for your storage tanks, your pipes, and your valves that won't leak. Now factor in that hydrogen is stored at very high pressure, 5000-10,000 psi for the gas, or at -252.8DegC for the liquid. These problems are solvable, but the solutions are very expensive, and they are still quite risky in harsh environments (such as vibrations in a vehicle). 2) You put more energy into making hydrogen than you get out of it. If you have a kWh of electricity you will travel 6 times farther using it directly in an EV than you will if you convert it into hydrogen and use it in a hydrogen vehicle due to all the losses at every stage in the hydrogen conversion and utilisation process. Here's an article that covers most of the important points. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/13/will-hydrogen-overtake-batteries-in-the-race-for-zero-emission-cars The other thing worth noting is that battery prices continue to fall and are expected to be 50% lower again by the end of 2025 (if not sooner). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justy 46 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 3 hours ago, SPN said: Toyota are so far behind in the EV game that they are guaranteed to be bankrupt within a few years as they will be rapidly losing market share at the same time they need the revenues to build out new EV manufacturing plants. The two EVs they are selling at the moment are made in China by BYD. There are two insurmountable problems with hydrogen. 1) It is the smallest atom. Who remembers learning the Periodic Table of Elements in school? Hydrogen, Helium, Lithium, Berillium, Boron, Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Etc. This means you straight away have a problem finding a material for your storage tanks, your pipes, and your valves that won't leak. Now factor in that hydrogen is stored at very high pressure, 5000-10,000 psi for the gas, or at -252.8DegC for the liquid. These problems are solvable, but the solutions are very expensive, and they are still quite risky in harsh environments (such as vibrations in a vehicle). 2) You put more energy into making hydrogen than you get out of it. If you have a kWh of electricity you will travel 6 times farther using it directly in an EV than you will if you convert it into hydrogen and use it in a hydrogen vehicle due to all the losses at every stage in the hydrogen conversion and utilisation process. Here's an article that covers most of the important points. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/13/will-hydrogen-overtake-batteries-in-the-race-for-zero-emission-cars The other thing worth noting is that battery prices continue to fall and are expected to be 50% lower again by the end of 2025 (if not sooner). Electric cars are not the one solution SPN... They have their faults and environmental impacts also. Clarkson and Mike Brewer speak alot of sence about them.. Toyota were one of the first companies to put a battery in a car.. Their Hybrids are the best on the market considering their Prius cars have really stood the test of time, even tough their looks ain't the most appealing.. Toyota will be on top of their game in time with EVs.The VW iD cars are already having their batteries replaced apparently under warranty. A local guy working as a mechanic for a VW dealership was telling me. You would have sleepless nights owning one of them electric VW Group cars when your out of warranty I can imagine.. Most of the materials sourced for batteries comes from central Africa and childlabour has a big part to play unfortunately.. They are still underdeveloped and there is lots of downsides we never seem to be told about them... Only the good. We are lead to believe they are the only way forward. But they are not the answer to everything.. Edited February 25 by justy 46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.