Too many modells - Farm Models loosing worth now?

[Richard de Florennes]

As the year 2009 and as it seems now also year 2010 seem to see a lot of new manufacturers and new modells on the market, I get the feeling that some of the older modells are loosing worth rapidly. For example, while I bought a mint Britains Ford 5000 from the 1980s for some 20 Euros or so a few years ago, you don't even get a quid for a modell like this nowadays, as the new editions are on the market and even better Fords from UH and ROS coming out now.

Some goes for some nice conversions of old Britains modells, e.g. a 4WD Britains MF 595 (bought for some 45 Euro two years ago) I wanted to get rid of a I now have the new UH MF 590 and have to get some place and money for the new modells, the old MF went off for a quid or so.

Also I have become very uncertain about what buying next, as you do not know what is coming around the corner next week. E.g. just as I had bought a converted Fendt 415 series tractor, Schuco and Wiking came around with some much better looking Fendts of the new "agressive" design series with those mean looking front lights. As year after buying the SIKU Lemken front packer, UH came out with a much more detailes version of the same tool. A year after converting a SIKU MF with dual wheels investing much time, UH came out with some spot-on dual wheel MF versions.

On the other hand, the range of implements does evolve only in respect of brands and types, but still almost only covering the most popular farming types - most implements still for the grain or green growers, not much for the row-crops but slowly improving here and then.

What do you thing about the development of the agri modell toy market? Does it make us happy with more modells or does it make us unsatisfied, always waiting what is coming next week and loosing complete overview of all the new modells around, not talking about any limited series and colour variants ...

[ihatepoundland]

When I started, I wanted to buy everything, the complete set.

Since then I've realised you have to look at each model and decide if you really want it, if it is not good enough for you to treasure, don't buy. I've stopped making conversions for a while now as I know that most likely a much better factory made version will come along and so it is better wait rather than devalue other model(s) in the process of creating one.

So now that I collect what i want, I don't mind, for example, that my original New Holland TM165 will soon be outclassed as to me it has an attraction in the balance it strikes as a toy. I look forward to soon owning a replica as well.

[Simon]

Very valid points... I was just looking at all the new release topics thinking 'how the F*&^ am I going to afford everything I want!!'     

I won't bother converting anything for a while either I think, looks like everything I want is on its way...  \

[archbarch]

i think the key is to collect what you like there is so much choice now, a little patience is worth so much.

As for collecting models with the view that they will be worth money, well theyre only worth want people want to pay.

Collect what you enjoy and enjoy your collection.

[Eurodeere]

The rush of models will effect the conversion market the hardest, both in terms of new items and value of previous conversions. Part of the fun previously was to find a rare or undervalued item. Now we just have to wait for the model to be released This has changed the way to buy, no longer can you buy everything from one model maker or even one manufacturer. The times they are a changing and I see values of items falling further as excess stock gets off loaded months down the line.

Not even worth trying to buy the latest release because a better model will be available a few months later.

What will be the items that gain value in the future? Those that sell few and are rare in 20 or 30 years, looks like we should all be buying Britains models 

[FNHIR]

The rush of models will effect the conversion market the hardest, both in terms of new items and value of previous conversions. Part of the fun previously was to find a rare or undervalued item. Now we just have to wait for the model to be released This has changed the way to buy, no longer can you buy everything from one model maker or even one manufacturer. The times they are a changing and I see values of items falling further as excess stock gets off loaded months down the line.

Not even worth trying to buy the latest release because a better model will be available a few months later.

What will be the items that gain value in the future? Those that sell few and are rare in 20 or 30 years, looks like we should all be buying Britains models 

My thoughts exactly!

[powerrabbit]

Any model is only worth what someone's prepared to pay and if it's not in your price range then you don't buy it. Unfortunately, it now doesn't seem to work that way, any model you want to sell is not worth much in others eyes, they always want it for next to nothing. On the other hand, anything you want, you have to pay top whack take it or leave it. I say leave it, if only everyone were to leave it then these prices would fall to an afforfable level. The main problem with high prices, especially new models, is the 'middle men', the importers and retailers which the traders have little control over. The UH 1:16 models on average start life at around £16 and the trader sells for an average of £46. Yes there are too many models, At the end of this year there will be so many new ones that last years will all be forgotten about and in 10 years time the current models will be as cheap as dirt.

[schw84]

I think the only models worth getting will be the rare ones i.e ones with less than 2000 made. Less than that if possible. At the moment the red valtra from UH is a good bye what with it being a ltd run but people no realising it thus no stupid bye all and ebay attitude. This time last year I was spending around £400 a month on models, now I'm not, mostly because I have no more space, but now there are so many models out there, where a I used to look at it with the attitude that, I'll put it on the shelf for a few months, then flog it lose a few quid, but will have looked at it for abit, now your guaranteed to lose money and by the time you have teh model you want something else. It's a shame as I like conversions and was prepared to pay for a good one, as someone has spent time on models. Now whats the point....

ps if someone like UH does an MF8480 I am going to hit the roof and stop buying all together............................

[Deere-est]

i think the key is to collect what you like there is so much choice now, a little patience is worth so much.

As for collecting models with the view that they will be worth money, well theyre only worth want people want to pay.

Collect what you enjoy and enjoy your collection.

Ditto that. I was up for buying what I liked not too long ago, now I want to buy what is relavant to me. Some of the OEM's were catered for from people like Weise with the Fendt 515C and 824, UH with the Claas 836 and 697, Britains with the CVX's and now Imber Models with the 40 series, UH with the NH6000 and Replicagri with the 60/TM. I bought a lovely MX135 made out of an MTX from UH and have some trailer orders with threeoaksfarmmodels..... I hope to make some stuff myself one day. All in all though, of late there has been a great influx of models I have wanted for a long time. Models of machines I have used will come before anything else now. A little room for investment purposes should money allow but by and large I want a collection that means something to me. A real reason for owning the models that I own  :)

[B O R]

all good points.i too believe there are far too many "limited editions" coming out.It just leaves us that tractor conversionists are reluctant to invest money and time scratchbuilding an unavailable model like for example a IH 434.now i wouldnt like to spend 20-30 hours on the bonnet,maybe 10-15 on the chassis an so on plus getting it set up to cast and starting to sell them as the fear is what is around the corner?? thats one of the reasons i never wanted to rely on tractor conversions as a mainline,there pushing the conversionists against the wall..there will always be a want for one off builds that maybe involve complex brass builds but generally tractor and implement wise we are pretty spoiled at minute

[Rick]

all good points.i too believe there are far too many "limited editions" coming out.It just leaves us that tractor conversionists are reluctant to invest money and time scratchbuilding an unavailable model like for example a IH 434.now i wouldnt like to spend 20-30 hours on the bonnet,maybe 10-15 on the chassis an so on plus getting it set up to cast and starting to sell them as the fear is what is around the corner?? thats one of the reasons i never wanted to rely on tractor conversions as a mainline,there pushing the conversionists against the wall..there will always be a want for one off builds that maybe involve complex brass builds but generally tractor and implement wise we are pretty spoiled at minute

Not me but would be if you want to send me a couple to look over to check on ahhh errrrr paint nicks.... :of ;)

[Big Al]

It would appear that certain companies have got so powerful that they could very well eliminate any form of opposition to them. Hence the market for conversions could well be in question. If we all buy what these companies produce we reinforce the problem. We may get lots of nice models.. but the money is all going one way. It isn't coming in to local people's pockets so that they can build their businesses. If we tell them what to produce.. guess what they probably will and we probably won't. Dunno about the rest of you but I don't want to end up staring out of my cage like an animal in a zoo. There are plenty of talented farm model conversion specialists in this country. Have any of the big companies come calling on you to offer anything for your services in a practical or consultative role?

[Tractorman810]

i have given up worrying what it will be worth in x years now, afterall we have all been crying out for the models that are now being produced for ages so in a way we could be held responsable for the current situation in asking all these years??. personally i feel the markets being flooded truth be known, but have adopted a policy of buying only what catches my eye, apart from mf models that is, ,doesnt matter if its limited or not, i can not afford to collect otherwise , i can not see it denting the future values of the older stuff to much ,as we all know whats the new version and whats not, as will collectors in the future.

it amazes me how many people can afford to buy everything that comes out, they must have huge pockets or very rich parents funding them :D  and if they have pm me and i will try for adoption if thats ok

[Simon]

Sean, I'm not sure even Madonna or Angeline Jolie would adopt you....     

[FordTractorCrazy]

Oem's always want new toys of their latest range, and 9 out of 10, the models released are top of the range models.. Except for Fendt, i dont see many of the lesser HP models of OEM ranges being made. I think conversionist have a market here and are offered better base models to use for their customizing. And i still prefer a precision like model above a toy with the toy hitches etc.. I still buy conversions and scratch build models in limited runs by specialist model makers like DBP and Brian Norman etc.. and i value these high(er). If you look at ebay, and see the crazy prices that are given for G&M's, DBP's and Brian Norman's models, you know those are hitting the roof when it comes to value.. (recently acquired a G&M for a friend for nearly 500 pounds which is double what you pay for them when those were released. So for good scratch builds, there will always be a market. For scratch building a problem is licensing of the models they make (which are quite costly) and secure that they are only allowed to make them as that is the only protection they'll have to get their investment back! The new model releases by the many manufacturers are opportunities for conversionists though. I know of a conversionist on ebay that makes limited runs of certain customized UH models of 50-100 models (including certificates) and does really well as far as i can see..

as for the flooding market.. what do you think will happen to manufacturers if their specific models being sold in less quantities as normal and they are left behind with overproduction.. they have to adapt their prices then to a higher level, which means lesser sales, vicious circle - utlimately bankruptcy.. This cant go on much longer, i am sure of that.. in 3-5 years, many manufacturers will leave the scenery of farm model making.. i dare to make a bet on that!

[Tractorman810]

Sean, I'm not sure even Madonna or Angeline Jolie would adopt you....     

ms jolie would i know that ;D   in my dreams

just amazes me how people afford every item that comes out thats all, must be hellish rich and given my lofts filling rapidly on what i buy must have a huge storage space for it all to

[archbarch]

why should someone go into business making/converting models and not expect any competition???

[FordTractorCrazy]

my remark is about scratch built models. If you want to make a new model, you have to acquire a license, make a pre-sample, get all parts made etc... There are so many and quite high costs involved (five figures) that every small time manufacturer can get out of business if their specific models arent protected by licenses. So although competition is allowed, it would be a shame if the small manufacturers(mostly one man operations that have a lot of personal money invested) arent protected against the major players on the market when it comes to specific models they produce.

[SOLOSHEP1]

why should someone go into business making/converting models and not expect any competition???

just a thought if say ford produced a new version ka and another company came along and copied the shape and called a ka would they get away with that ? same with models

[Eurodeere]

just a thought if say ford produced a new version ka and anothercompany came along and copied the shape and called a ka would they getaway with that ? same with models

They don't get away with it. Deere and New Holland are very protective and get competitors colours and shapes changed. One that comes to mind was New Holland stopping a Chinese maker from having the same bonnet shape. Ford stopped Same using the Galaxy name as they had registered it for a car model.

It should be the same situation for model makers if they have the licence from the OEM. But here comes the problem in my view, model maker gets licence to build the Acme 75XT  and gets to build and sell 500 examples of this classic model for £100 each. Much discussion takes place on the Barn Foyes Forum and Briku Bobbies sees the interest, approaches the OEM to mass produce the Acme XT75 toy. The OEM says yes and Briku Bobbies sets to work. Original model maker says "hang on, I've got the licence" OEM say's "yes, for a highly detailed collectors model, we've given a licence to produce toys to Briku Bobbies".

A few people will continue to purchase the hand made models but not in the same numbers, most people will buy the toy at a fraction of the price. Just like food the population for what ever they say about protecting and purchasing from the small producer/environment friendly/UK produced/organic will when walking up and down the supermarket aile will choose the cheapest.

[Simon]

Some home truths in there which sadly we must all admit to. I do everything I can to support British industry in work, I specify British manufactured furniture, floor coverings, wall coverings, joinery, paint, the lot... but when it comes to my hobby I fit it around whatever cash I have spare and sadly that means buying mass produced, which even more sadly means Chinese made..... We can't however magic up cash out of thin air but I'm confident that with closer pricing we would buy home produced models. In terms of the spectrum of models produced, it's bound to hit appreciating prices of rare models.... I have no need to buy a vintage Britains 135 or 595 or that sort of thing because I can buy a better detailed one off the shelf... There will always be collectors of older or rare models, but with mass market availability of something similar [and often better] the competitiveness over acquiring these rare pieces will be reduced....