Lord Ferguson Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Fair play to them for banging the made in Britain message home as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughmaster Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Fair play to them for banging the made in Britain message home as well My understanding is that less than 80% of the components in currentJCB products are actually sourced within the UK \ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf aphid Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I would say 80% would be exceptionally good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 Indeed.. A site better than Massey Ferguson's current UK production rate :'( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorsday Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Ploughmaster, As far as the JCB backhoe loaders are concerned, JCB make the engines, transmissions, cabs, booms, rear loaders and probably pretty much else in this country apart from possibly the wheels and tyres. Is that not enough British content for you? RD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughmaster Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Indeed.. A site better than Massey Ferguson's current UK production rate :'( Massey Ferguson don't use 'britishness as a selling point though, do they (neither are they a UK company (and never have been). My figure of 80% is a little out it seems, and perhaps things have changed radically in the last 18 months, but JCB themselves admitted in early 2010 that UK made components accounted for only 36% of their backhoe loaders (a figure which was 96% thirty years before). Not something that sits well with using the Union Flag as a marketing tool \ Only a third of the components in a JCB digger – widely seen as a symbol of British manufacturing vigour – are now made in the UK. The proportion has fallen from 96 per cent to 36 per cent since 1979, reflecting the hollowing-out of supply chains by globalisation, takeovers and high taxation, according to Sir Anthony Bamford, JCB’s chairman. source: http://cachef.ft.com/cms/s/0/be1fb22a-26f7-11df-8c08-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1bviTwal3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 I don't think my post suggested that MF did use their provenience as a USP anyway did I ? Nor did I suggest that MF were/are a UK owned business ... Although I'm sure you know that Massey Ferguson once had manufacturing plants in Manchester, Coventry and Kilmarnock.. Which at least made their products UK manufactured back in the good old days. I repeat my original post modified for the more pedantic/anal members comfort to say good on JCB for using their machines country of manufacture as a marketing tool.. Be it 5 or be it 95% of the machine I'd rather have something assembled here in the UK than overseas. When it's commercially viable I always use UK manufactured kit as my preference when buying plant. Oh and thanks for posting Rory.. You get all the good jobs you .. Are you off to the 7600 lunch next week at Stonleigh ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorsday Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (Not something that sits well with using the Union Flag as a marketing tool) I'm sorry, but how anyone can deny JCB the right to use the Union Flag on their products, especially the backhoe loader, because they don't have enough British content in the machines is beyond me. JCB is as British as they come....family owned, based in Britain, several factories that produce engines, transmissions, cabs, etc in the same area.....they have made a point of keeping as much production in house as possible and employing British workers. Damn it, they even put their hands in their pockets and developed their own diesel engine and manufacturing plant, the 444. How many other plant manufacturers do you that have done that. There is a valid point made about the supply chain. At one time, when we had an automotive industry, it was possible to source most bolt-on components in the UK. No car industry, no domestic supply industry. Some parts just have to be sourced abroad. Credit where credit is due, I think. Regards RD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughmaster Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Rory - I'm sorry, but I find the the attitude that something largely sourced from abroad should be considered 'British' as absolutely staggering. It is no different from the potatoes and other produce which are imported from abroad, and then processed within the UK and then labelled as 'British' on the supermarket shelf (something most people in the UK farming industry get very up tight about). It is that mindset which has much to do with the current state the UK is in. And Lord F, the view expressed in your last post, makes me ask, what exactly was the point of your previous posts - you were the one who raised the lack of MF production in the UK and in almost the same breath congratulated JCB on highlighting their Britishness. I merely tried to suggest that MF has no relevence in this thread. [And I am also prompted to ask why, when I have made a comment based on published fact, I am (once again!!!!) having folks jumping down my throat and throwing thinly veiled abuse??? It seems to me that it is OK for some people to be critical, blunt or insulting, but the rest of us must only be permitted to agree with the views of the 'chosen few'.] Looks like something Austin Powers would drive Quite . It is certainly a rather loud colour scheme - looks even more so on the real thing (not exactly tastefully done!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Firstly, without letting this interesting debate slip down a notch, can we keep comments constructive and acknowledge each and everyone us may have our own opinions on the subject, of which we are entitled to voice. Basically, as long as we all "agree to disagree" I won't have to get the naughty step out for anyone. That includes everyone on the forum by the way I am also going to split this topic away from the original subjet which was a new release. My own thoughts on the model are that it is probably a bit too excessive with the Union Jack but as a marketing gimmick, it very much delivers! Il get Britains to confirm the production on this later today. The Made in Britain debate could go on forever really. A similar argument could be put forward if a plastic product component was pressed in Britain from oil/raw plastic sourced from the middle east yet had a Union Jack on it. I think if there is an element of british manufacturing / assembly, a product is worthy of a made or assembled in britain label. I would tend to disagree with a company then using a 100% British through and through marketing label, but I doubt this happens often for legal reasons. The food industry could perhaps implement stricter guidelines on these labels. Processed in the UK, Sourced from xxx would solve the issue perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorsday Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Ploughmaster, Ref your comments: "I'm sorry, but I find the the attitude that something largely sourced from abroad should be considered 'British' as absolutely staggering." The whole point of this debate is that the JCB backhoe loader and for that matter most of JCB's mainstream products are built using British-made, British-designed and British-assembled products in their own factories. Surely they, more than any other manufacturing company, are entitled to use the Union Jack flag on their products? I can't believe that only 36% of the parts that go into their backhoe loaders are made outside the UK. I guess it depends what you describe as being 'made in the UK' because it may be that the raw castings have to be out-sourced from the UK because there are not sufficient foundries to deliver them here. The JCB ethos whereby raw steel enters the factory at one end and a fully completed machine rolls out of the other, still holds true today. I don't think people are jumping down your throat, I personally just disagree with what you've said. RD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 And Lord F, the view expressed in your last post, makes me ask, what exactly was the point of your previous posts - you were the one who raised the lack of MF production in the UK and in almost the same breath congratulated JCB on highlighting their Britishness. I merely tried to suggest that MF has no relevence in this thread. My point was Mr Ploughmaster... that its a great shame that MF no longer manufacturer in this country in the same way in which JCB do currently. So... again... I repeat... Well done JCB and I'll also add... shame on you MF for not retaining your mainstream production/assembly here in the UK... As for relevance in this thread... well I think to discuss another previously high volume manufacturer of plant and agricultural machinery's cessation of UK based manufacture was pretty relevant to the thread.. on the basis that YOU were chipping in with your percentage of UK component sourcing for JCB's production. In short we went from discussing the model to 1:1 scale production in the usual FTF manner... on this occasion started by you really. You are most welcome to correct and educate us all with your google facts... I'm sure we all appreciate it, but I get the impression from you that on some occasions that you like to prod, poke and goad others into unpleasantness for the sake of it. That kind of behaviour is welcomed on some forums... but not this one - You've been a member here long enough to know that FTF is not that kind of place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 I can't believe that only 36% of the parts that go into their backhoe loaders are made outside the UK. I guess it depends what you describe as being 'made in the UK' because it may be that the raw castings have to be outsourced from the UK because there are not sufficient foundries to deliver them here. I wonder if that figure is based upon a physical component count.. what I mean is... perhaps the largest of the components (engine, loader arms, bucket(s) and dipper for example) are UK manufactured and assembled... but smaller component items such as cab interior parts, switchgear, looms etc. are non-UK. If this were the case I'd be pushing the marketing department to emphasise the diggers percentage based upon the weight of the machine and not the part count .... just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractorman810 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 thats probally the case marky, whilst the big parts are uk built, smaller switches ect could be world wide produced and they would make a big part of the overall machine even when tiny , i know they did build all their buckets ect in a uk foundry in chesterfield, and to the best of my knowledge still do, as we did a training course right beside it in one of our places so the uk still has its output, just not as big having watched the jcb prog last night, the company does seem to do all work in the home country, the american ones are all usa built parts, so its in their eyes 100% american ,which is easily possible given the usa's huge range of companys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Forgive me my ignorance but, what is the point of this topic \ ? Can't really see what point is being made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractorman810 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Forgive me my ignorance but, what is the point of this topic \ ? Can't really see what point is being made. sorry neils, it was split from the origonal topic about this model here you go http://www.farmtoysforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,34786.msg725613.html#msg725613 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Udimore Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Well as some of you know for my proper job (electronics) I spent one day per week at one of the JCB sites scattered around the UK or harness houses and I have got to know loads of the guys on the shop floor (and fellow suited guys) and the whole companies culture at floor level is all about being british and sourcing british components etc....I wouldn't be required atal if this wasn't the case as there are much cheaper electronic connectors etc throughout the world And I must say that they are the most professional company I work with worldwide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agrium Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Im a man of few words, especially on a topic were we are trying to argue red is blue. Perhaps JCB would manage to be 100% British designed, engineered, sourced and built if some of the other historical 'British' companies had hung around, instead of being too slow, or refusing to see areas to improve or adapt. well done JCB Its companies like JCB that this idea of draping a flag on a machine was invented for im bored now, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ferguson Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 Perhaps JCB would manage to be 100% British designed, engineered, sourced and built if some of the other historical 'British' companies had hung around, instead of being too slow, or refusing to see areas to improve or adapt. well done JCB Its companies like JCB that this idea of draping a flag on a machine was invented for im bored now, I don't think anyone would argue with that Agrium... but perhaps we only have ourselves to blame... Our militant unionised work ethic back in the glory days of UK production must have put pay to the UK's appeal as a manufacturing nation on a global scale for a lot of multinationals... and indeed, UK based businesses. Many a sale was lost through MF due to strike action during the 1980's.. I am sure it was the same for others.... But I guess that's a whole new can of wriggly things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super6 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 .............a lot of, ahem, interesting comments here The most ironic thing is that a model of the Union Jack emblazoned 3CX extolling Made in Britain is being made in..............well foreign parts. I don't know whether to or :'( The advertised price is £64.99......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepoundland Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I've always thought the red tractor was quite ironic http://www.redtractor.org.uk/ Talking about supporting the UK with a tractor brand not built here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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