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Prepare for rant

If i build something it is for a forum forbidden reason,

Yes I build models to sell them

Why would i build models in multiples of 6 for my own collection??

Ok so from my point of view this is what it seems like,

The forum has built up a large following over the few years it has been running, the running costs are rising hence modelfarmer.COM with the subscriptions help raise funds

as do the members models etc etc . . . the forum needs funding, perfectly 100000% nothing wrong with that.

This attitude of political correctness is bonkers!!

Let me be sarcastic

Here guys is a picture of 6 tankers i am building for my own collection

(imagine picture here)

Now, everyone on the forum know i build to sell, as a hobbie all be it a little profit making.

the forum ran perfect before this political nonsence has started

simply by changin the topic name to "What are you building for your Collections" is a political cover up for the topic that was started to see what people were building no matter what the reason they were building for,

I posted pictures not as advertising but as an insight into my 1/32 world, yes the side effect is people pm ing me asking prices etc . . . sometimes i give prices

others I say look ebay or wait until it is on my website.

To me it looks like the forum eventually will have to ban all members from posting images of anything they make own sell or aquire as in some sideeffect someone may like the item and contact the author and ask if they'd sell said item. Thats life boys and girls

The other day a man said he liked my car and asked if i would sell it . . . . What did i say?? No,

But because I am not selling it does that mean i dare not take it out in public in case someone makes that proposal???

Getting beyond a joke is what this.

Guys from now on do we have to write a disclaimer with every photo to protect its reason for posting???????

Lads, bang you heads together only harder this time

If this gets deleted then it must mean I have a valid point or two or more??

This is my own opinions, not strictly facts

Read between the lines

Are complaints coming from those who pay for banners???? Probally

is the notion why should i pay when others post for free??

My answer, they chose to pay, the forum always had pictures of current builds, now it won't

so its general release pictures only from now on is it??

this will destroy the forum long term,

I have a proposal to put to Andy that i will do which may help sort this but in the meantime

If it ain't broke . . . . . . dont fix it....

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I tend to agree with the previous posts however you couldpost a picture of only one tanker and not all six. Because when you put a picture of six tankers on the forum it looks obvious that you are trying to sell them.

I have notting against posting pictures of your collection but if you make it obvious that there is something for sale you should have to pay for advertising unless you put it the classified ads using FTF rules.

But whatever the judgment will be, it should make sure that the forum will be able to continue as is.

Thats my 2 cents on this subject.

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I hate to get drawn into political discussions, particularly regarding the forum, and even more particularly going OT. I also have to make it clear that I go with Andy as my boss!  :D

But in this instance I am inclined to agree with Ricky & Stephen, sorry Tris.

This is the way I see things, it's only my view and shouldn't be taken as me drawing a line in the sand and standing on one side of it.

I take the banners to be for traders. People or businesses who either sell the same things or items which cannot be easily discussed in topics.

I see the boards as a place where anyone can post about models and builds.

I think the forum would be a poorer place if the likes of Ricky or Paul [PDC] were prevented from posting about their builds which we all know are for sale. It's completely transparent and should be supported.

In the same vein, if Geoff wanted to come on and post about his commissions then that should be encouraged too, someone else will find out about it and discuss it anyway so why shouldn't the originator be the person behind it all in the first place.

Rather than concerning ourselves with who is getting free advertising we should be thankful that because of FTF the hobby grows as a result of more collectors seeing models that aren't available in the shops etc.

The banners are a great tool for re-sellers as they will lead us away to their shops rather than others, depending on our mood. No banner, no hits, no sale.

I don't think the likes of Ricky and Paul should be pegged the same as G&M or TopTractor. They couldn't meet demand if they advertised like the re-sellers and shouldn't be expected to advertise with a banner.

If some would like to see FTF follow the BBC and become an ad free zone I think it would remove one of the biggest draws of the forum, the chance to see things being built, discuss them openly and then buy them. The rules regarding PM's for price negotiations are good and should be maintained, discussing money is a dirty thing.. ;)

But I don't think we should even consider restricting the likes of Stephen or Ricky or Paul from posting about builds they have for sale.

I want to see what they're doing and FTF allows me to do that. If you outlaw things, people find a way round it anyway.

Let's say Stephen decals a lorry but he's not allowed to post about it. I email him to see what nice things he's working on at the moment and end up buying one. I'll post pictures of it and say what I paid for it, and hey presto, Stephen's got free advertising anyway.

After rambling round in circles for ages, i guess what I'm trying to say is that if we stop allowing the likes of Stephen and Ricky and Dan and Paul to post, then we'll all have sod all to look at and talk about!  :D :D

No offence intended to anyone.... especially Tris, he'd bite my ankle...... :D

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This a difficult point here on FTF. I agree with Tris because he is following the rules from FTF. But the question is are the rules oke on this point. My opinion is no.I agree with Simon on here. We all know that Ricky, Paul, Stephen and some others are building conversions and selling. My opinion is that sellers with banners on here cann't have any problems with this. The conversions builders need parts where are they buying them by those sellers with banners. For example Ricky did spray mc cormicks into case/ih colours. He had to buy somewhere those mc cormicks so it is good for the sellers in my opinion. We know that sellers are watching FTF and see what conversion builders are building. So they know what we want. A few years back why did see from some brand only conversions and now it is released by a manufacturer. I know this last point is hard to confirm but my opinion is that there is a point. I hope we all can solve this here on FTF.

Texas

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Hi again lads

Thanks for support Texas.

I have had some pm's and alot of emails on this topic,

I t has been seen as that I have made it look like I think I am being picked on, that is not how i feel, i feel i speak for anyone and everyone in similar position.

it was mentioned to me that "we are trying to level the playing field"

can anyone possibly support how changing a topic from

"whats on your work bench"

to

"what are you building for your collections?" levels a playing field?????????!!!!!

now gather around and Think like this

If Ricky here builds something for his own collection on his workbench

is it now wrong? should I build on the floor as i am not allowed a topic saying whats on a workbench but i'm allowed to post what i'm building for myself, even though both cases the items are built in the same place!!!

Yes my workbench is an old table, others it is the kitchen table, or other surface, surely the place it is built does not redefine the reason it is built so the two cannot be compared???

And on the note from anfield vario

if i post a picture of 6 tanks or 1 people automatically know that i build models, so if its 1 or 111 they are all sellable so the end result is the same,

so in my personal opinion its ban all posting about home builds or rewind from this nonsence and keep the forum ticking as it was

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I tend to agree with the previous posts however you couldpost a picture of only one tanker and not all six. Because when you put a picture of six anything on the forum it looks obvious that you are trying to sell them.

I have notting against posting pictures of your collection but if you make it obvious that there is something for sale you should have to pay for advertising unless you put it the classified ads using FTF rules.

But whatever the judgment will be, it should make sure that the forum will be able to continue as is.

Thats my 2 cents on this subject.

I'm glad someone understands!! ;)

If any of you have suggestions, please let us know. We appreciate help from all corners and would rather have feeback put to us than a big debate in a board.

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I think my principle point on all of this is "Reasonable Control" of selling / sales.

If I allowed everyone and anyone to sell on here with no control, it would quickly become a jumble sale, with it going on all over the forum. Many conversion topics would be transformed into haggling yards which in my opinion is not what FTF's about. It's about appreciating people's time and effort and enjoying reading how the model's are made.

Let me get one thing straight, I have no problem with people posting any work they have done. I want to encourage as many members as possible to get their tools out and have a go. I want those who are now renowned in the hobby to continue churning out new and innovative pieces of work, because it's fascinating to read and look at.

Those who do make models to sell...again no problem with posting your work up, but if we can be as clear as possible about it.

i.e. Here is my latest piece of work. Will be available for Spalding. Priced £45. I will make them to members own spec..Check out my website for more info... or PM me for more details.

Similarly, I am taking orders for this item, see the link to the forum classifieds where you can purchase it direct.

Opinions and feedback welcome

If this is followed to extent, everyone knows what's going, we all know the item is for sale, and the price, we know where to get more info and if we want to buy it now, we know how to.

I think my point is, it gets rid of topics simply containing "how much is it" , "is it for sale", "Can I have one", "Can I pm you for more details" etc... In my opinion, thats not what makes a conversion topic on here. I'm sure the customiser would also appreciate pure feedback on the item rather than churning through such questions.

So the bottom line. I am not stopping people posting their work up. I am not stopping those who sell models from posting their work up. We all want to encourage this as it's hugely popular on FTF.  All I ask is honesty from those who are posting stuff for sale, and if you don't have a website, why not use our classifieds? I am happy to help anyone in getting used to such a system. I even have the capabilities to help you build your own site if you dont have one. It only takes a PM to me.

If anyone does have feedback on the matter, I would be more than happy to hear your concern,

mail me or phone me

Regards

Andy

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I agree With Andy and Tris. No offence ment to Ricky or anyone else on this forum. I myself have brought things though pm, but most of the time it was because i asked if they new of anyone or had any forsale of a particual item. I think that if its kept to pm then ist okay? How ever maybe not if you ask if a item is forsale on the forum on a thred. Again i have done this before and i shouldnt have. I think that it should be kept down to posting pictures of 1 or 2 of the item, not 10 lined up even though it looks good. I do think it should be down to the member who is intrested in a partuicular item to be ressposible about finding out if its forsale. I think it would be a shame if no one ever brought items of each other throught pm if you keep it to pm. If everyone gives a 1nch then it would be sorted. What im trying to say is that if the people who post the models up keep it to posting 1 item, and they people who are intrested in one pm them then it works in my opinuion, as 1 item isnt meaning its forsale but the person who is itntested in it can find out throught pm.

Hope you all get what i mean here, and please no offece is ment to anyone on this forum. Its just my thoughts on this matter. Thanks Ad

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iam building another shed for my farm

i agree with what andy says but i dont see why they cant post pics of them lined up because thats what there building  ???

;)

1 item or 10 items . . . . The result is identical

like if you were building 10 sheds for your farm you could only picture 1 in case it caused dispute, silly isn't it

1 or 10 . . . no difference

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Quote Andy

Those who do make models to sell...again no problem with posting your work up, but if we can be as clear as possible about it.

i.e. Here is my latest piece of work. Will be available for Spalding. Priced £45. I will make them to members own spec..Check out my website for more info... or PM me for more details.

Similarly, I am taking orders for this item, see the link to the forum classifieds where you can purchase it direct.

So why then was the topic title changed????

Because changing the topic title and this commment basically saying "yes post up pictures tell us how much and how to purchase the item" completely contracdict each other!!!!!!!

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I'm not too sure that previous posts really fit in with what I was going on about, but anyway!

A solution for person A may not be agreed with by person B, so to find a perfect solution is not necessary straight forward.

That said, we are working to find something which most members will be happy with.

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I'm not too sure that previous posts really fit in with what I was going on about, but anyway!

A solution for person A may not be agreed with by person B, so to find a perfect solution is not necessary straight forward.

That said, we are working to find something which most members will be happy with.

it fits in Andy because this topic was started to show what people were up to, then it has now been looked upon as being a selling platform so the title was changed which is now a lie and misleading

You say its now fine to say how much something is in a post, so now you are saying that it is ok to basically advertise in a post!!!

but all in all this topic was not started as an advert but an insight into the craftsmen who do this kinda thing

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;)

1 item or 10 items . . . . The result is identical

like if you were building 10 sheds for your farm you could only picture 1 in case it caused dispute, silly isn't it

1 or 10 . . . no difference

That doesn't fall into the sales issue at all then does it? ::) Because. . . They would be for his own collection.

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That doesn't fall into the sales issue at all then does it? ::) Because. . . They would be for his own collection.

But any of my pictures or posts

I never posted up just to sell them, all i did was say and show what i was building, so that wasn't sales, so why was my topic pulled up to the jury???

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Conversions are the part of this forum, which make the site unique, anyone can have a forum on standard UH, Britains, Siku etc models, pretty boring...

Add Conversions into that mix and the site opens up to many different avenue's.  Lets face it, some people do not have the time, skill, recources or something else, which does not let them pursue the conversion route, but still love to see what can be done, and if they want, to buy one.

I had a post from FB and Andy about my tractorsketch site, because 5IMON had asked me for a price, (as he usually does) my prices are on the website but for some reason he chose the forum thread to ask the question.

You shouldn't be stopping sellers post whatever they want about conversions.

Don't punish them and take away the individuality of this forum.

If you need to punish, it should be against the people asking the questions.  Make it evident unless they pursue you on your website, email or PM, that it won't be tolerated and their post will be removed.

I would think Andy if you switch the convertors off to your site and they take their ball home, then there would not really be a forum to have. :)

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i,ve been a member on here now for 30 months as far as i can remember when i started there was not many banners if any so surely we all know ricky,pdc and many others now including myself ,but where did i get that idea from it was on this forum,i was imazed to say the least of what anyone person could do a model and some of the transformations i have seen have been unreal to think what creations have been whipped up to make our 1/32 scale world as real as we can possibily have ..........

   so there what i,m really saying and yes i dont have a banner but surely anyone that has taken the step to put up a banner on here knew exactly what they were doing and what people (conversionists) were capable of doing so therefore why are we being pushed ,forced into situations where we dont want to be .

  for me i am a full-time farmer but boy i love my time spent mostly at nights working on models as well as being on ftf they work part and parcel together ,the people i have met,talked to and indeed produced a model to there desire ,what a way to enjoy a hobby thats what it is for me a hobby not a business ......... so there people who has banners did'nt just jump in and say i want a banner on here they studied this site well and truly before making commitment as anyone would do so i cant see why we are a real threat to a stardard person selling standard boxed models

         hope this all makes a little sense       Stephen at fm tractors

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Just one other bit of consideration for you to take in to account. . .

Apart from all the talk on how to sell and how not to sell; whether to show work or whether no to; who has an ad and who doesn't, one key factor has been missed which I put in my original reply in te Workbench topic.

This Forum is free for everybody to use, not one part of it for us daily members requires a registration fee. There is no limit as to how often view it or how we interact.

It is a benefit for all of us, it offers information on models, we show our work, we pick up inspiration, we laugh and joke, we show our collections, we have blogs. . . . All totally free of charge.

Don't take it for granted. It takes private funding and a lot of volunteer work with very few perks other than the enjoyment to be involved to give you all this. A bit of appreciation doesn't hurt.

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I wasn't going to get involved in this one Tris since I don't customise or sell models but reading what you have written has prompted me to have my say for what it worth.

I think Andy and his Mods do a sterling job on here and as Tris says the forum is free and there is no registration fee. It's a great place to be but there has been an atmosphere on here today. This morning I was the only one one at 6 am and it was extremely lonely. I hope the forum gets back to it normal enjoyable self as soon as possible. It's a hobby folks and hobbies are supposed to be enjoyable.

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I wasn't going to get involved in this one Tris since I don't customise or sell models but reading what you have written has prompted me to have my say for what it worth.

I think Andy and his Mods do a sterling job on here and as Tris says the forum is free and there is no registration fee. It's a great place to be but there has been an atmosphere on here today. This morning I was the only one one at 6 am and it was extremely lonely. I hope the forum gets back to it normal enjoyable self as soon as possible. It's a hobby folks and hobbies are supposed to be enjoyable.

sorry folk. i have to say i second that, you could cut the tension with a spoon. i'm sorry it has not been enjoyable to log on today.

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