Universal Hobbies: Too many Models? Discuss..

[bluegreen]

  spot on! It seems some people are quite indignant at UH's wish to mass produce models. They are a business out to make as much money as possible, to which I see no fault. If you don't like it don't buy them! They are never really competing with specialist white metal manufacturers as these have a different following. and yes the quality might not be up to that of those a good £20 more but there is your answer!  Only thing i do question is how long this can go on before the bubble bursts though.

I dont think it will be a case of the bursting bubble but more a case of the reality of the global financial meltdown overtaking the model  manufacturers and forcing new economic realities on the population.  In other words we will still want to buy the models but necessities such as food, fuel and energy will increasingly limit our purchasing power :'(  unless of course you are a city banker   just imagine how many models and how big a diorama you could buy with a one million quid bonus!!

[B O R]

if uh are to continue this trend then as jonny mf said they should be paying very close attention to detail as we custom builders do....there has been so many previous releases that were just a disgrace,the mf 6475 being a prime example....to be honest i wouldnt care if they released a new model every day as it wouldnt affect any future plans ive got,i can still think of lots of models that i can make that will probably never be made by a company,but for the man trying to invest a few quid in setting up casting costs etc to release a new model then he is really taking a big risk now as there will always be the threat hanging over him that any day uh could bring that very same model to production for a fraction of the cost....i think the days of going solo in model production is very fast coming to an end as uh have squeezed every builder into the corner now,they seemed to have wanted the whole market to themselves and now are nearly there,i wonder what there plans are for the future now that they,ve achieved that

[MB Trac]

I can't see UH being affected as they produce small quantities and sell to a global economy. Then they seem to re-use molds to make various colors and variants of the same models. They are in my opinion producing too much too quick for the collector to keep up but I am just selective now

[Steve P]

That County 1474 looks stunning in the photo, not sure about the TWs yet, but what the hell im buying all of them, thank heavens a model producer has finally listened to the people who buy there products, hope this gives UHs competiters the kick up the Bum they need..

I apologise but i cannot afford to spend 100s/200s of pounds on a model even though i would would love to so i have to look at the cheaper less qaulity mass-producers to hopefully produce the models i want, so a affordable Ford TW and certainly a big County is well high on my list..

[MB Trac]

I think UH produce excellent quality products and I will buy the new Fords all day long. Just need a new set of wheels on it and a twin row beet harvester behind it

[ploughmaster]

That County 1474 looks stunning in the photo, not sure about the TWs yet, but what the hell im buying all of them, thank heavens a model producer has finally listened to the people who buy there products, hope this gives UHs competiters the kick up the Bum they need..

Much more likely that their competitors will simply not bother trying to compete at all   

I apologise but i cannot afford to spend 100s/200s of pounds on a model even though i would would love to so i have to look at the cheaper less qaulity mass-producers to hopefully produce the models i want, so a affordable Ford TW and certainly a big County is well high on my list..

I think perhaps you have missed the point. 

The majority of serious toy/model tractor collectors, many of them having started 20 - 30 years ago, collect to a theme - whether it be a particular scale, OEM, model manufacturer or whatever.  Most of started out ou with the eventual aim (in those days, realistically achievable) of a 'complete' collection.  The rate at which some manufacturers (UH and Ertl in particular) are churning out new items/variations has made the aim of completeness quite impossible, and has dulled the interest in continuing for many of us.

It seems to me that many more recent collectors are very random in their purchases, and are amassing what I can best describe as a 'hotch-potch' collection, so will just pick and choose a few from the vast array of new items appearing, and are not becoming disheartened in the way that long standing themed collectors are, by seeing a their chosen theme expending exponentially beyond their financial and spatial resources.

I welcome the appearance of a 32nd scale TW, and County, but do we really need to be overpowered by a rash of variations of the same thing all in the space of a couple of months - we know there will be the two wheel drive , twin rear TW30, the 8830 and County 1474 in January/February, and we have seen definate indications that there will also be at least two versions of TW25 (and from past performance, I fully expect to see 8730, and County 1884 versions as well).  Whilst some of you will be perfectly happy to only buy just one version of this series, a dedicated Ford themed collector would need to fork out for all of them - £100+ for a model from DBP doesn't look overly costly by comparison to be honest.

[FordTractorCrazy]

Much more likely that their competitors will simply not bother trying to compete at all   

I think perhaps you have missed the point. 

The majority of serious toy/model tractor collectors, many of them having started 20 - 30 years ago, collect to a theme - whether it be a particular scale, OEM, model manufacturer or whatever.  Most of started out ou with the eventual aim (in those days, realistically achievable) of a 'complete' collection.  The rate at which some manufacturers (UH and Ertl in particular) are churning out new items/variations has made the aim of completeness quite impossible, and has dulled the interest in continuing for many of us.

It seems to me that many more recent collectors are very random in their purchases, and are amassing what I can best describe as a 'hotch-potch' collection, so will just pick and choose a few from the vast array of new items appearing, and are not becoming disheartened in the way that long standing themed collectors are, by seeing a their chosen theme expending exponentially beyond their financial and spatial resources.

I welcome the appearance of a 32nd scale TW, and County, but do we really need to be overpowered by a rash of variations of the same thing all in the space of a couple of months - we know there will be the two wheel drive , twin rear TW30, the 8830 and County 1474 in January/February, and we have seen definate indications that there will also be at least two versions of TW25 (and from past performance, I fully expect to see 8730, and County 1884 versions as well).  Whilst some of you will be perfectly happy to only buy just one version of this series, a dedicated Ford themed collector would need to fork out for all of them - £100+ for a model from DBP doesn't look overly costly by comparison to be honest.

You hit the nail on the spot here! . I am one of those themed collectors, collecting Ford and New Holland and it is simply impossible to keep up with what is churned out at the past two years and what is announced already for next year, both financially as space involved. I still rather have a limited model of 1000 or less in my collection at a premium then some mass produced model. so won't see any of the announced models in my collection for the time being..

[roberthenning]

Those are really nice models, will be adding the county to my collection, or at least waiting for the 1884 badged one If they are listening hurry up and get patents for the John Deere 40/50 series and the Zetor crystal

and for the vast minority that are crying about uh brining out tractors, if you dont like dont buy simples

[ploughmaster]

and for the vast minority that are crying about uh brining out tractors, if you dont like dont buy simples

You are another one who is completely missing the point as well 

[MuirHillyBilly]

Kind of irrelevant whether you are a 'hotch potch' collector or a themed collector in my opinion. There's always been a steady stream of models, Britains were doing it for decades, all of a varied type (often with tons of variants of the same model too) If I were a themed model collector and say wanted all the old Ford/County stuff then currently my main options are old Britains (often ridiculously over-priced a la County 1884) Scaledown (again not cheap) a range of dodgy conversions or DBPs great models (try finding a 1174 for less than £225) So in essence vast expense and probably a lot of hassle involved.

It's about choice and frankly I cannot understand the argument of 'I'm a themed collector therefore I don't want this huge multiple choice' fine don't buy it but why should others suffer and not be able to enjoy the choice. Most mainstream model companies will consider themed collectors a distinct minority and quite rightly as none of them would exist if it were not for the more generalist enthusiast/collector. Take UH, Weise, Schuco, Ertl, Britains etc out of this market and what would we be left with? Specialist makers like David Purdue have a important role to play but by the same token as desirable as a lot of these specialist models are most 'collectors' cannot afford/readily find them.

[ploughmaster]

It seems that the idea of aiming for a complete collection on a particular theme is a concept too complicated for some people to grasp  \  But, that is the basis that most of us who started collecting 20 or more years ago set out with.

Until the turn of the millenium, new releases in 32nd were actually small in number - probably one or maybe two new tractors from each of Britains and Siku (together with a couple of new implements from each), and an odd 32nd toy from the likes of ROS or from elsewhere. A steady stream there quite definately was not - even UH were only issueing at a low rate for their first few years, and even aiming for a complete collection of every 32nd tractor ever issued was still a realistically attainable eventual goal.

It has absolutely nothing to do with whether we like the new models or not; more that many of us are no longer able to feel there is any possibility of achieving completeness of the theme, which rather spoils our intended aim, and therefore largely destroys our original reason for starting the collection.

[Steve P]

Much more likely that their competitors will simply not bother trying to compete at all   

I think perhaps you have missed the point. 

The majority of serious toy/model tractor collectors, many of them having started 20 - 30 years ago, collect to a theme - whether it be a particular scale, OEM, model manufacturer or whatever.  Most of started out ou with the eventual aim (in those days, realistically achievable) of a 'complete' collection.  The rate at which some manufacturers (UH and Ertl in particular) are churning out new items/variations has made the aim of completeness quite impossible, and has dulled the interest in continuing for many of us.

It seems to me that many more recent collectors are very random in their purchases, and are amassing what I can best describe as a 'hotch-potch' collection, so will just pick and choose a few from the vast array of new items appearing, and are not becoming disheartened in the way that long standing themed collectors are, by seeing a their chosen theme expending exponentially beyond their financial and spatial resources.

I welcome the appearance of a 32nd scale TW, and County, but do we really need to be overpowered by a rash of variations of the same thing all in the space of a couple of months - we know there will be the two wheel drive , twin rear TW30, the 8830 and County 1474 in January/February, and we have seen definate indications that there will also be at least two versions of TW25 (and from past performance, I fully expect to see 8730, and County 1884 versions as well).  Whilst some of you will be perfectly happy to only buy just one version of this series, a dedicated Ford themed collector would need to fork out for all of them - £100+ for a model from DBP doesn't look overly costly by comparison to be honest.

Yes i can see your point, some collectors may get disheartend with all these new releases, i for one have at least new 5 models on my must get list for next year and we are still in 2011!, no collectors are the same though so what delights one collector will disgust another, i do tend to buy random models with no real theme but i still often find the choise of models available beweildering at times. Saying that i would rather be spoiled for choise as opposed to be suffering from the lack of it..

[DBfan]

Those are really nice models, will be adding the county to my collection, or at least waiting for the 1884 badged one If they are listening hurry up and get patents for the John Deere 40/50 series and the [glow=red,2,300]Zetor crystal[/glow]

and for the vast minority that are crying about uh brining out tractors, if you dont like dont buy simples

Robbert give me time    next year I will be making more of the Zetors 

[Paul Palmer]

i cant afford to spend the money the conversion specailists charge,even if it was for a model i previously drove or had a connection with and i will say again,i fully understand there prices the convo people charge, its hand made and  ltd and very detailed,although not all models,but only a few months ago people on here were moaning about the lack of ford releases,to many massey releases etc,,however i also do see ploughmasters perspective,its horses for courses,but i still dont see why its uh that always get a beating,they are churning out,yes  lots of releases,but there models are of a good standard for there price

[Andy]

I have split this topic away from the main releases topic so this discussion can continue and new releases can be left for the new releases. 

Some interesting opinions being posted. I think as a collector, I can appreciate UH releasing what they are and in the manner that they are doing. I guess its only getting into line with what other diecast hobbys have been doing for years. What does concern me though is in 12 months, these models will be being dumped at 1/3 of their original value. For the excellent models that they are, I would say this would be a great shame as A) they are not doing the real machine justice and it devalues the values of collecting (if that makes sense). I can't help but think that a greater margin for the manufacturer would also be achieved if resources pointed torwards releasing 3-5 different tooled items at once rather than 3 - 5 identically tooled items. I also think it enhances the collectable nature of the products with enthusiasts being more inclined to purchase 3 - 5 models (from the same tooling) over a staggered release period of 2/3 years than if they were all released at once.

[MB Trac]

I think it is not possible to win. I don't ever envisage all UH models as collectable as the shear qty's produced (worldwide market) does not allow it to be. The smaller limited qty's perhaps. I just would prefer to have one rare Britains model for 20 UH models

[Tractorman810]

the only bit that annoys me about uh doing this is they will kill of the likes of dave p, nigel ford and co, which to all  collector cuts out a potential line of models, that are as mentioned a lot better detailed, and a bit more exclusive, which as much as you younger guys moan, is what some  people want,in a few years you may well be able to afford these models, and once in your collection will appreciate them a lot more than a run of the mill uh model. theres a huge market out there, we all know that, so what gives ,do the likes of dave  and co move into zetors and more non mainstream makers ,landini leyland ect???, i bet right now if they did, they would get 1 or 2 years and bang uh steam in again , so why make that huge finacial outlay, to potentially loose it all?? maybe even more?? its just not worth the risk for them now sadly .theres no reason at all why uh can not keep away from those smaller makers markets, and still turn a very healthy run of fords or mf's ect , even implements. leaving the market open to all

[SOLOSHEP1]

the only bit that annoys me about uh doing this is they will kill of the likes of dave p, nigel ford and co, which to all  collector cuts out a potential line of models, that are as mentioned a lot better detailed, and a bit more exclusive, which as much as you younger guys moan, is what some  people want,in a few years you may well be able to afford these models, and once in your collection will appreciate them a lot more than a run of the mill uh model. theres a huge market out there, we all know that, so what gives ,do the likes of dave  and co move into zetors and more non mainstream makers ,landini leyland ect???, i bet right now if they did, they would get 1 or 2 years and bang uh steam in again , so why make that huge finacial outlay, to potentially loose it all?? maybe even more?? its just not worth the risk for them now sadly .theres no reason at all why uh can not keep away from those smaller makers markets, and still turn a very healthy run of fords or mf's ect , even implements. leaving the market open to all

not to worry sean still think they will eventually go bang have got me flags out dusted and ready yeah

[Tractorman810]

not to worry sean still think they will eventually go bang have got me flags out dusted and ready yeah

you may well be right dave, but that then opens another can of worms, whilst i buy your stuff, uh do fill a gap in the current market with other stuff they make, the 590, the 135's, for me, but theres others to which you guys can not do financially, who then forfills that gap, and keeps the hobby alive as such?

the real key is uh keeping away from stuff the smaller guys make, giving everyone a choice, not just now but into the future to

[MuirHillyBilly]

Thing is do any of the quality scratch builders, conversionalists struggle to sell their models? I'm not sure they do and some go for continually higher prices. If Marge models have got tons of them Fords left in 6 months time I would take the point that UH and the like are putting the smaller makers out of business. If model makers (the ones run as businesses) were going out of business due to the bigger players I think we would all be sad but is this even the case? If UH make an 1884 it will only be doing what Britains did over 20 years ago.

[Lord Ferguson]

I'm in agreement on this with Ploughmaster 100% I have to say and (respectfully) a great deal of people are missing Mr Ploughmasters points about the 'bigger picture'

This all smacks of Corgi and the model bus and lorry market... I guess what we are really discussing is the inevitable.. The ever rolling wheels of commerce will ensure the boom and bust cycle of the farm model world just as it has done with the two markets above. BUT... from every negative comes a positive... in this case more than one...

1. This boom and bust cycle has not yet reached it's peak... let alone taken the long gentle slide towards bust.. we have many many years as collectors to enjoy and bask in the hobby - Positive number one

2. At least we'll be most likely to obtain a model of everything our collecting hearts desire during this rise and fall - positive number two

So... in short.... chin up.. stop moaning (those that are) and make some hay while that sun is shining people - it's great to be alive 

[Jdeere6910]

Like some people have said before I don't think that 1 county model will kill of DBP and co. I know for a fact that even though DBP countys may be the dogs but there's a lot of people who cannot simply afford £130 for a model. I think a lot of people on this forum lead a very affluent lifestyle and don't think that there are collectors out there that want quality(ish) but not at a high price. At the end of the day I'm pretty sure that 1 model won't put some frankly excellent model builders out of business.

As for the amount of releases, yes try do release far too many, but for me there isn't a single model released in the last year by any mainstream manufacturer I really want. Of course that's only my opinion, and what do I know? I'm still a kid with no right to have an opinion on this sort of matter

[Lord Ferguson]

I think a lot of people on this forum lead a very affluent lifestyle and don't think that there are collectors out there that want quality(ish) but not at a high price.

I'm still a kid with no right to have an opinion on this sort of matter

A very true statement indeed.. some people forget how much some of these models are to some folk.. especially those who are not fortunate enough to be currently in employment

As for being a kid... make a post like that one above and your opinions and comments are EQUALLY as valid as the next persons... keep up the good work I say 

[Steve P]

1. This boom and bust cycle has not yet reached it's peak... let alone taken the long gentle slide towards bust.. we have many many years as collectors to enjoy and bask in the hobby - Positive number one

I agree, i think most of us collectors has at least one model on there wish list that has yet to be produced i certainly have a few, it would be impossible to have a model of every single tractor that has been produced during the last 100 or so years.

I think both main stream model firms and specialist low volume producers can live together without stepping on one anothers toes for some time to come. I think more people are collecting then ever before judging by the recent and on-going flood of new items coming on the market and the large number of obsolete models being sold on ebay and the likes for at times unbeliveable prices so it seems the hobby is in a boom time and long may it continue. If the market is there and people are willing to spend there well earned cash the model producers be they main stream or specialist will continue to amaze, dazzle and occatioanlly amuse us with there products.

So when is the release date for the UH Muir Hill 141, Roadless 118, Leyland 272 sychro and the John Deere 3650??

[MF4370]

The model farm world has gotten big in the last few years, going to shows is evident of that, they have gotten bigger and more new collectors are appearing so the demand has gotten bigger so the likes of UH are gona cater for that demand because they can afford to, there quality is good but isn't as good as the likes of Wiking or scratch builders.

But the likes of myself and others who have started collecting in the last few years are opting for the mainstream manufacturers just to build up a collection, especially because they are cheaper to buy, but I am now at the stage of collecting that I am after collecting models that have been specially made, and make my collection unique, so I don't mind going to a show and spending a £100+ on 1 model rather than the same amount of money on a few mainstream pieces.

Another reason new collectors are going mainstream is they don't understand the work scratch builders put into there models, so they think that they are asking to much ( I was guilty of that) it took me a while to appreciate the hours and work these people put into these models.

So scratch builders shouldn't worry, every collector is looking something unique for there collection