New Border Fine Arts MF390 with Mower coming out... limited to 750

[THEBRITFARMER]

That is what I meant Bill, I thought maybe the Classics would be porcelain/china and the Studios would be resin or similar.

Have they always been resin? do they make any in porcelain/china?

[Lord Ferguson]

No dirt on the tyres in 'The Fergie' I see... and not a lot of Frosty on the ground of 'Frosty Morning'  \

as for the JCB boys... they must have freshly painted their buckets as they new they were being 'immortalised' in plastic resin  \

[BC]

That is what I meant Bill, I thought maybe the Classics would be porcelain/china and the Studios would be resin or similar.

Have they always been resin? do they make any in porcelain/china?

No Scott Border Fine Arts do not manufacture porcelain or china (that's for doll manufacturer's and the likes). If you were to obtain a copy of Model Farmer in which I did an article entitle Border Fine Arts - Part 1 I'm sure I did a history of when the company was founded and what they initially started manufacturing.

[powerrabbit]

With reference to inaccuracy's in these studies I think we have to understand that for certain detail it is very difficult to replicate parts such as the grass true to life due to the medium used to create it unless other materials like plastic and fibre were used which in my opinion would spoil the study. Yes, there will always be fault found but this is true in the majority of model replication. I know these studies are not cheap but Bill will agree with me when I say that if anyone has seen these being created they will appreciate just what goes into them in time, resources and everything between. They are after all as described, a study, which depicts rural and agricultural life. Personally I think they're pretty fantastic and am willing to look past certain things although I do notice them.

[BC]

I have to agree whole heartedly with what you are saying Tim......I'm glad I'm not the only one who appreciates the "Finer" things in life ;D

[Lord Ferguson]

Such as Costco and carrier bags for instance  ;)

I take your point Tim... it wouldn't pay for us all to be the same (and in some cases, thank the Lord we are not)... I have no real issue with these plastic models... it's just the prices they command that I would bulk at.. I guess its like anything really when it comes to purchasing decisions we make as individuals, we make them based on our own perceived value of the item.  I'd probably buy (& retain) the MF ones if they were £50 a pop  \ .. mind you, they would still stay in the loft 

[BC]

You will find many fine things in Costco too I can assure you that  Mark but no carrier bags only banana boxes and the likes ;)

[Jdeere6910]

As has been mentioned before the new massy is poor however I think that overall BFA studies are generally very good, however it seems that you can always pick faults with things if you look hard enough/are determined to. And as the saying goes "nobody's perfect" so neither are all models.

[powerrabbit]

If I may just elaborate a little more on scale detail, of models in general, it is now easier to mould detail into a model with the modern materials available but with certain ones there has to be an element of strength in process where heat is concerned in construction and a certain thickness of materials to enable it to retain its form. If you notice, especially on older diecast models from the likes of Dinky and Corgi, the cars, vans and busses and also lorries, have window bars that are proportionately out of scale, in essence, they are a lot thicker than the real thing. This is done for strength in the model as the roof of a vehicle model would not be sufficiently be supported and would distort and crush down the bars under very little pressure. When the perspex windows came in then these bars became slightly thinner as the perspex would give more support. I believe that nowadays we have become more collectors than players and in our collecting interest have become more educated in the difference between a toy and a model and having lived through the changes in and processes in model production methods and materials we tend to compare models through the ages from then till now so therefore tend to look at them with a more critical eye. Any model, as we perceive it, is basically made as a toy for the masses, it's just what you do with it that gives it a true definition, play with it, it's a toy, look at it and put it back in the box or display it, then it's a model. BFA and other such studies are really a completely different entity and should not be included in my opinion as models. This is going off the topic I know but still think pertinent.

[Deere-est]

As has been mentioned before the new massy is poor however I think that overall BFA studies are generally very good, however it seems that you can always pick faults with things if you look hard enough/are determined to. And as the saying goes "nobody's perfect" so neither are all models.

Not good enough. A company selling goods has to sell perfect goods. That's for everything, not aimed solely at Border Fine Arts.

With reference to inaccuracy's in these studies I think we have to understand that for certain detail it is very difficult to replicate parts such as the grass true to life due to the medium used to create it unless other materials like plastic and fibre were used which in my opinion would spoil the study. Yes, there will always be fault found but this is true in the majority of model replication. I know these studies are not cheap but Bill will agree with me when I say that if anyone has seen these being created they will appreciate just what goes into them in time, resources and everything between. They are after all as described, a study, which depicts rural and agricultural life. Personally I think they're pretty fantastic and am willing to look past certain things although I do notice them.

I wouldn't think anyone could disagree with that post to be honest. I havn't seen anyone saying anything directly to the contrary in this topic.

[Jdeere6910]

Not good enough. A company selling goods has to sell perfect goods. That's for everything, not aimed solely at Border Fine Arts.

I see your point Tris, and Im dissapointed with the BFA 390 it doesnt look right. However I feel though if you try hard enough you can pick fault with anything, take the Replicagri NewHollands and the UH ford 7810s, they have faults. But then again they are better than no models at all I would say. At the end of the day its down to the buyer as its their money, if they dont like it, they dont buy it. Im not having a go at anyone on this site either, everyones opinions are right and its is a forum.

[Deere-est]

I agree with the "if you don't like, don't buy" statement but when it's the manufacturers fault it can't really be applied. If you can't get it right, don't make it 

[Jdeere6910]

I agree with the "if you don't like, don't buy" statement but when it's the manufacturers fault it can't really be applied. If you can't get it right, don't make it 

Your probably right on that one, maybe some major manufacturers of tractors (model and real) could take note

[Paul Palmer]

If I may just elaborate a little more on scale detail, of models in general, it is now easier to mould detail into a model with the modern materials available but with certain ones there has to be an element of strength in process where heat is concerned in construction and a certain thickness of materials to enable it to retain its form. If you notice, especially on older diecast models from the likes of Dinky and Corgi, the cars, vans and busses and also lorries, have window bars that are proportionately out of scale, in essence, they are a lot thicker than the real thing. This is done for strength in the model as the roof of a vehicle model would not be sufficiently be supported and would distort and crush down the bars under very little pressure. When the perspex windows came in then these bars became slightly thinner as the perspex would give more support. I believe that nowadays we have become more collectors than players and in our collecting interest have become more educated in the difference between a toy and a model and having lived through the changes in and processes in model production methods and materials we tend to compare models through the ages from then till now so therefore tend to look at them with a more critical eye. Any model, as we perceive it, is basically made as a toy for the masses, it's just what you do with it that gives it a true definition, play with it, it's a toy, look at it and put it back in the box or display it, then it's a model. BFA and other such studies are really a completely different entity and should not be included in my opinion as models. This is going off the topic I know but still think pertinent.

i can see where you are coming from tim,but doesnt  apply to that massey 390, no way is that bonnet like that for strength,the bonnet is wrong ,wrong ,wrong,and probably down to the people who measure or photograph the real model,it should never have been passed,all these companies,and i include britains and uh and others,should check and double check,even ask guys on here,who know what they are talking about,its a shame as the massey mower looks spot on

[powerrabbit]

Take your point but I was being more general than specific. With the bonnet issue, not being into MF, could the real tractor it was modelled on have had replacement bonnet panels sometime in its life and not as original?

[Lord Ferguson]

Sadly not Tim really... I dont think would be possible to get a droop-snoot style bonnet fitted like that without some major, unnecessary modification really... I think it's just simply been sculpted wrongly :/

[BC]

Well P78 YCN was first registered on 4/10/96 and is still shown on DVLA. It would be nice to find out where it actually resides and see what the real deal does really look like.

[Paul Palmer]

Well P78 YCN was first registered on 4/10/96 and is still shown on DVLA. It would be nice to find out where it actually resides and see what the real deal does really look like.

that would be interesting,could see what happened then,couldnt we

[BC]

Well it would be nice to know what the real deal looked like but we cannot trace its keeper through the DVLA for obvious reasons. Maybe Mark is correct and the sculptor had got it terribly wrong but this is most odd given they have produced over 60 odd basically fault free tractor figurines in the past.

Again once I get my own model from the local Massey Ferguson dealer I will be taking all this up with initially The Border Fine Art Society and if no luck there with Border Fine Arts themselves.

I remember rejecting the "yellow belly" twice because of a bent exhaust and incorrect painting. After the second rejection I actually got a call from a girl in the quality control department and during the call she thanked me for bringing the issues to their attention. The only complaint I had was the battery should be painted black and not gold but at the end of the day I got a more correctly painted tractor.

Now I know they won't be able to remodel the bonnet..well they could but it would not be viable for them to do so but at least we will be able to tell them and make them think about releasing a mould like this go into final production.

[Lord Ferguson]

Professor Rory Day hit the nail on the head really Bill... if they enlisted the services of someone 'in the know' then these things would get picked up before they tarnished their hard earned reputation by producing inaccurate models.

In their defence.... they are not alone... although their is no excuse from anyone really - all it would cost them is a model or two I am sure  \

[IH885XLMAN]

If that was a toy one produced by RC2 there would be loads of people up in arms

at this ,that is diabolical the cab looks real shabby and as wrong as the bonnet is

i would rather invest in a DBP 390 than thatas they are soo much more accurate

shame on you BFA  > >  and im not a die hard massey fan but if i was

i would be very dissapointed  \

[powerrabbit]

I had a similar issue with the painting a few years ago with the David Brown study 'Getting ready for Smithfield', the Silver Jubilee tractor. It was not really an issue but the tractors fuel tank, that what was showing of it, should have been black but had been left the 'power red' and the vertical bar frames on sliding window pane sections on the rear panel of the cab were left out, all were the same, not just the example I had. I contacted BFA to 'alert' them to this and politeley pointed it out and the answer I got was, the fuel tank, 'you can paint it yourself' and the window frame bars, 'you can do that yourself'. I wasn't too pleased with the response and just reminded the person I was speaking to that before releasing any study that they should be more observant in detail as customers require a certain standard of detail in order to be happy enough with it to make a purchase. I think they must have, up to now, taken such comments on board but not forgetting the white wheels on the Leyland where they should have been silver.

[Tractorman810]

Well it would be nice to know what the real deal looked like but we cannot trace its keeper through the DVLA for obvious reasons. Maybe Mark is correct and the sculptor had got it terribly wrong but this is most odd given they have produced over 60 odd basically fault free tractor figurines in the past.

they all look the same bill, unless they are the forestry versions, but even then the bonnets the same, you only have to look at the dbp ones to see exactly what they look like, 2 wd or 4wd, or even go through a copy of classic tractor, theres alway one or two for sale in the adds.

as for complaining to the company, i cant see any point, they have all been made now, they cant be altered so sadly the deeds been done, as mentioned in other topics, the only way you can make any change is to refuse to buy it, if they dont sell then questions will be asked by whoever commisioned it or the company them selfs, , other option would be to return it to them for a refund, same effect that way to ,either way one person giving them greif wont make any difference to them, they will probally just lable you a" moaning old git" or something, if they already havnt from your previous complaints you mentioned

[B O R]

i think companies that are going to produce models in large scale like UH,BRITAINS,ERTL,SIKU and even BFA should have a few "secret eyes and ears agents "throughout the country,people they can contact to clarify things about a particular model....for example if there producing a MF product maybe have a contact like Travor Chippendale,Sam Neill or John Farnworth to answer there technical questions...For County maybe Stuart Gibbard or similar and so forth through all the makes,thers plenty of knowledgeable people out there and if they would only check things surely we as the customer would get a better product......for me DBP made the 390 as good as we,ll ever see but this latest 390 is a MESS.....not a bad mower though

[BC]

they all look the same bill, unless they are the forestry versions, but even then the bonnets the same, you only have to look at the dbp ones to see exactly what they look like, 2 wd or 4wd, or even go through a copy of classic tractor, theres alway one or two for sale in the adds.

as for complaining to the company, i cant see any point, they have all been made now, they cant be altered so sadly the deeds been done, as mentioned in other topics, the only way you can make any change is to refuse to buy it, if they dont sell then questions will be asked by whoever commisioned it or the company them selfs, , other option would be to return it to them for a refund, same effect that way to ,either way one person giving them greif wont make any difference to them, they will probally just lable you a" moaning old git" or something, if they already havnt from your previous complaints you mentioned

No I don't agree Sean they listened to what I had to say in the past and thanked me for doing so and at the end of the day I got a correctly painted Yellow belly and a Leyland with the correct silver wheel rims as opposed to the cream ones. I know it won't change this model but it might make them sit up and think about others. Mind as I have said this is the first one they have messed up and well they have made in the region of  60 tractor figurines. I won't be complaining I'll just be letting them know my opinions and the opinions of other model collectors which I have heard ;)